What is "Frog Flipping" ?

[jeffr]

If a person buys say 20 tincs wholesale raises them to a sexable age and sells them as pairs (say you get 8 pairs from 20). most likely quadrupling what they paid wholesale, is that reselling,flipping?

To me jobbers are the worst because they don't even possess the animals they are selling. They don't even know the quality of animal you're getting

Jeff,

The deciding factor for 'Flipping' is DISHONESTY. Jobbers are not the greatest, but at least they have a business reputation and try hard not to 'F up and kill animals, which is all bad for business. Mark Lucas is a text book jobber / re-seller combo. His rep is actually pretty good and he goes to great lengths to do things right all the way around. That earns him an 'ok' in my book.

Now take a look at that Goof from Michigan with the escudos. Lied the whole way around. FLIPPER.

If you are straight up and tell people 100% EXACTLY what you are doing/ selling and for what reasons and go to great lengths to safeguard the animals and prevent death and disease. AND then deal fairly, honestly and correctly with peoples time, money and orders.

THEN....you are not a 'Flipper"

"Flipper" = Shitbird...and is reserved for the bottom of the barrel.

The Michigan guy who bought 5 pairs? I didn't see any lies there. I didn't see captive bred. help me out here

[Philsuma]

Sorry Jeff. I re-read that thread and I guess the chap from Michigan is indeed not the best example. It looks like he just pulled a fast one by saying 'He look at all my awesome escudo" and then said...they are for sale. Something like that. Did he ever mention where they originally came from ? Strictly ?

[jeffr]

What would you call this:

Early this week I saw Underground reptiles had field collected Cobalts for sale for $40. I contact them asking if they can sex them. Their reply was the frogs are too young to sex????? I replied back saying you have W/C frogs that are too young to sex? Their answer was yes they are too young to sex. Now if he would have said, look we don't really keep darts and I don't know how to sex them I would have accepted that answer. My first thought when I heard this though was the frogs are really captive bred and he is selling them as W/C because he is seeing how fast the import Pumilio are moving

Thoughts?

[Philsuma]

^^^
Flipping.

Not only are they NOT the importer, but they have no knowledge of the animal.

[dtfleming]

Lots of flippers now. Even pming you about your frogs for sale, trying to buy them for whole sale prices and reselling them at shows.

[Chris Miller]

A little home-town promo there Chris ? Is that band any good ?

Their backup drummer was one of my babysitters when I was growing up and their lead singer is/was a chef at a restaurant in my old neighborhood in the city. I was never really into them though - I was listening to The Ramones and Black Flag in Middle School and High School.

[jeffr]

^^^
Flipping.

Not only are they NOT the importer, but they have no knowledge of the animal.

I knew they weren't an importer. I thought they were jobbers which would make sense in why they can't sex anything, i's because they don't have the frogs. At least be honest. Now I wouldn't even buy a Garter Snake from them No offense to Garter snakes

[BluePumilio]

They likely mislabeled them as $40 is about the cheapest WC go for from the mporter, and they have not brought in any Suriname shipments. Very likely they are CBB juvs.

What would you call this:

Early this week I saw Underground reptiles had field collected Cobalts for sale for $40. I contact them asking if they can sex them. Their reply was the frogs are too young to sex????? I replied back saying you have W/C frogs that are too young to sex? Their answer was yes they are too young to sex. Now if he would have said, look we don't really keep darts and I don't know how to sex them I would have accepted that answer. My first thought when I heard this though was the frogs are really captive bred and he is selling them as W/C because he is seeing how fast the import Pumilio are moving

Thoughts?

[BluePumilio]

They are not jobbers and have the animals they sell in stock. I've been to their facilities and have seen their animals, only nice things to say (except them handling venomous with customers in the room). I would not hesitate buying from them, they would not knowingly send you sick animals.

^^^
Flipping.

Not only are they NOT the importer, but they have no knowledge of the animal.

I knew they weren't an importer. I thought they were jobbers which would make sense in why they can't sex anything, i's because they don't have the frogs. At least be honest. Now I wouldn't even buy a Garter Snake from them No offense to Garter snakes

[RichFrye]

A little home-town promo there Chris ? Is that band any good ?

Their backup drummer was one of my babysitters when I was growing up and their lead singer is/was a chef at a restaurant in my old neighborhood in the city. I was never really into them though - I was listening to The Ramones and Black Flag in Middle School and High School.

Way to 'jack the thread MIller.

[MichiganExotics]

ok guys let me tell you about that guy in Michigan. he its not getting one pair or 2 like most of the guys in this hobby/business the last time i check that guy got 5+ pairs and he decide to sell some to his friends in the show $150 cheaper for a pair in comparison of other people it was reselling on inter net. He its not to trying to clean his name he was doing it because he got tired of people holding the frogs and medicating and ask for double the price. he sold 7 escudos and guess what? he still have the 5 pairs that he its gonna keep its a miracle. all the people are talking about common sense but they judge a person whit out asking or knowing the guy actually i like the guy he its really charming

[BluePumilio]

Personally, selling frogs cheap makes it difficult for people to put money into new imports as they are often funded by selling off healthy acclimated stock.

I like that Marcus cherry picks imports and sells them twice as much, as his frogs are worth every penny!

[MichiganExotics]

blue pumilio im not talking about marcus i have respect i don't know him and i never deal whit the guy i talk to him couple times and that's all. i was talking about a group of guys that they were talking smack about people and they doing the same just little more slow. i have a way of thinking you can do wherever you wanna do whit you money and life but respect others don't you think its better?

[BluePumilio]

Generally people who resale the pumilio buy and sell them in much better condition, I see no problem with that. They don't like when someone sells them cheaply, usually shortly after they get them which means the new owners are more likely to have problems with them. When you are selling frogs that are shipped to you, the very next day, with photos of the frogs still in the container, I think people should avoid sellers like that and we should discourage them. It'll just lead to disappointment when the frogs die from all that stress being shipped around so much, then no one is happy.

Step up your game and people will play nicer. Why do things half way when you can do them right?

[MichiganExotics]

im whit you on that one. but like i say we don't have to jump in to conclusions the escudos were import in November i got my order the first days of January but its was cold to ship i wait 3 weeks until climate were good and i hold the frogs for a month and medicating them before i offer it so if its not enuf time almost 4 months well. i have no words for. a lot people jump because im supposed to be new i dont post a lot in forums not because you post "thanks""that's a nice frogs""i wish i can buy it" make you an expert thats the people i was talking about well thats what i think sorry phil if what i post sound like a drama but i just wanna make the record strait

[BluePumilio]

I am confused, I thought I saw you offering these frogs when they landed? Nothing wrong with that if you are upfront about it, but it certainly is important to acknowledge it.

Being upfront and reasonable is always a good idea, it protects against disappointment from the end user.

[Philsuma]

Hi Michigan,

No worries with your posting. No one is out to 'get you"...I think everyone is just looking for Hobby / business credentials. Once satisfied, I am sure people will buy from you. Here's some friendly unsolicited advice from my years in this hobby.

Try to at least use a first name. You have a location listed and that's needed too, but you will find that people open up a lot more to hobbyists and businesses where the owner uses at least his first name. Big props go out to those who list their full names and have a tax i.d, better business number,website, brick and mortar location ect. When we use the term 'Flipper", those 'no name" people who flit around the Reptile show circuit with only their company name and virtually no other accompanying information. In short...if it is hard to find you, find out who you are, find out where you are located, find your name ect....then there is no way in heck I'm trusting you with a $500.00 animal order no matter how nice your pics are.

Hobby Credibility. It needs to be built and carefully cultivated.

Another VERY important issue is the one Justin (bluepumilio) jsut brought up - being upfront and honest with all people, especially potential customer and clients. There have been at least a few recent hobbyists that have gotten their tit in a wringer by lying about the import origin of the animals they were representing. This is a TINY niche hobby. This hobby is so small that there is a good chance that the exact frog that someone has for sale....someone ELSE has either seen it in person or has a picture of it. All those hundreds of new morph pumilio ? Chances are, a few people have seen them before you took possession of them. What I'm trying to say is, that for anyone to try to confuse or manipulate the import info on most dart frogs...will most likely be found out, and then there goes your cred, right out the window.

and I'm referring to the entire discussion topic here...not saying you are the example in the above reference.

[jeffr]

ok guys let me tell you about that guy in Michigan. he its not getting one pair or 2 like most of the guys in this hobby/business the last time i check that guy got 5+ pairs and he decide to sell some to his friends in the show $150 cheaper for a pair in comparison of other people it was reselling on inter net. He its not to trying to clean his name he was doing it because he got tired of people holding the frogs and medicating and ask for double the price. he sold 7 escudos and guess what? he still have the 5 pairs that he its gonna keep its a miracle. all the people are talking about common sense but they judge a person whit out asking or knowing the guy actually i like the guy he its really charming

Then why did you post the frogs for sale on Fauna Classifieds 2 weeks after getting them? Saying you'll have them at the show?

[MichiganExotics]

i got the frogs jan.9th, by that time the reptile show had already past.so i need to wait another month so i can sell them; in the meantime i put the frogs in quarentine,
i advertised the frogs acouple days later because i knew i had to wait another month; (for the next show)...my credrntials are in fauna c. and aracnoboards luke i say say before if ask people you will find out what i do and all my info. google its your best friend

[KGB]

google its your best friend

Google also has google translate... may make communication easier... just sayin'