Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

General Dart Frog Questions and Comments. Care and Husbandry
cbreon
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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby cbreon » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:08 am

Ok, since I partially derailed your thread for a moment I'll get it back on track. I am surprised that no one mentioned "collection credibility." I wouldn't say I necessarily agree with this way of thinking but I thinks its often times reality. People in this hobby seem to give credibility to someone for the size of the collection, and the rarity/price of its contents.

In some senses, taking care of a large collection successfully, producing offspring, raising offspring, feeding the adults, medicating (when necessary) can be a pretty big task and deserves some 'frog credibility." Another thing I see get lumped in with this is the credibility that comes with obtaining rare morphs or species. Often times, this just comes down to how much money someone has to spend, in these cases probably not deserving of any 'cred'. Other times its b/c they have shown to people working with these morphs that they are capable for caring/breeding the frogs and that probably is worth some 'cred'.

just some thoughts...

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby JJuchems » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:14 pm

I don't think collection is quite as reliable. I can think of a person who has swindled his way into rare frogs, some not even his to sell or trade. There are also some with larger collections that do not follow "best practices."
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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby RichFrye » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:46 pm

To me a collection of LONG-TERM established (people working with the same exact frogs for years and generations, not a season or six) , rare , hard to breed/establish, expensive darts which have been breed through multiple generations of offspring and have proven both health and life longevity goes a pretty long way to establishing 'cred'.

It's often not hard to tell if someone is a flash in the pan/dirtbag. The signs smack you in the face.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:51 pm

^^ Totally agree.

That ties into the thread I started on longevity / time in the hobby. Longevity is HUGE cred in my opinion.

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby cbreon » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:46 pm

Yeah, I think Rich and Jason are both right and that was my point. Sometimes morphs you keep is "cred" and sometimes its not, such as the situations Jason mentioned. I think that there is a common misconception, especially among newer hobbyists, about other hobbyist's rep just b/c of what they have.

As for longevity and collection size, I think that it is possible to do this for a long time or on a large scale and not employ 'best practices,' but its hard to do this for a long time and not have some clue about what you are doing and have some knowledge to share from your experiences. Obviously all these things factor into 'frog cred' to varying degrees, and as much as we might not like it, there is something to be said for other's perceptions--perceived frog cred.

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby fieldsmith » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:07 pm

I think generosity should be included in credibility. There are some older froggers who have been very generous to me (free frogs, helping locate frogs from others, finding journal articles, etc...) and, to me, these people deserve more respect than people who have great collections but are jerks (this is a general statement...not singling anyone out here). So, husbandry practices, knowledge/experience, connections, time in the hobby, size/rarity of collection, etc... are all good, but what good are they if the people aren't helping the hobby as a whole. The people who should have the most credibility are those that work to improve captive conditions, help new froggers grow in the hobby, work to keep species/morphs/localities in the hobby, and share their knowledge willingly (and without arrogance). Then again, I'm pretty new to the hobby, so I could be way off.
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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby RichFrye » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:48 pm

fieldsmith wrote:I think generosity should be included in credibility. There are some older froggers who have been very generous to me (free frogs, helping locate frogs from others, finding journal articles, etc...) and, to me, these people deserve more respect than people who have great collections but are jerks (this is a general statement...not singling anyone out here). So, husbandry practices, knowledge/experience, connections, time in the hobby, size/rarity of collection, etc... are all good, but what good are they if the people aren't helping the hobby as a whole. The people who should have the most credibility are those that work to improve captive conditions, help new froggers grow in the hobby, work to keep species/morphs/localities in the hobby, and share their knowledge willingly (and without arrogance). Then again, I'm pretty new to the hobby, so I could be way off.


Right. So if those guys with the cred I spoke of have not helped the hobby, do not freely give info, host meetings and gatherings, give out free stuff, organize shows, help with breeding projects not of their own, have beers with the gang and do all the cool hobby stuff most everyone in what I consider the hobby do, they have no cred .I'm with you . I think those guys fall into the business end of froggers, or total bunker guys.
I'll take any and all good info , whether it is given in what I consider an arrogant manor or not. Thanks for the good info.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby RichFrye » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:04 am

manner, not manor.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby fieldsmith » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:50 am

RichFrye wrote:
fieldsmith wrote:I think generosity should be included in credibility. There are some older froggers who have been very generous to me (free frogs, helping locate frogs from others, finding journal articles, etc...) and, to me, these people deserve more respect than people who have great collections but are jerks (this is a general statement...not singling anyone out here). So, husbandry practices, knowledge/experience, connections, time in the hobby, size/rarity of collection, etc... are all good, but what good are they if the people aren't helping the hobby as a whole. The people who should have the most credibility are those that work to improve captive conditions, help new froggers grow in the hobby, work to keep species/morphs/localities in the hobby, and share their knowledge willingly (and without arrogance). Then again, I'm pretty new to the hobby, so I could be way off.


Right. So if those guys with the cred I spoke of have not helped the hobby, do not freely give info, host meetings and gatherings, give out free stuff, organize shows, help with breeding projects not of their own, have beers with the gang and do all the cool hobby stuff most everyone in what I consider the hobby do, they have no cred .I'm with you . I think those guys fall into the business end of froggers, or total bunker guys.
I'll take any and all good info , whether it is given in what I consider an arrogant manor or not. Thanks for the good info.

Hi Rich,
I definitely didn't mean that as a counterpoint to anything anyone had stated previously. People that do all the things you mentioned should be awarded the highest credibility. Essentially what I was trying to say is that the people who do the aforementioned things in an approachable and open way are (to me as a newcomer) the people I respect the most. This doesn't mean that I ignore or don't appreciate any information because of the way it is delivered (as was mentioned in another thread, some people have thicker skin than others). If you said to me "Hey moron, you are doing everything wrong...this is how to succeed in this hobby" I would take no offense and would be appreciative for the shared wisdom, while other people would go cry about that type of response. I would never devalue anyone's contributions to the hobby, no matter their attitude. I honestly don't see how what I said could be taken to be casting any negative light, but if my post was taken that way then I obviously have a problem with writing clearly and wholeheartedly apologize. As I said before, I truly appreciate the help people have given me in this hobby...to me that willingness to help and work to improve the hobby is an easily discernible sign of "credibility". My view is that people can be total pricks and still have plenty of credibility in the hobby (this is a general statement, I have never encountered someone like this), I just have special respect for those that work hard to help others in a friendly way (I have met many people that fit this description). Again Rich, I honestly didn't mean for the post to come across as a judgment of anyone who has worked to support the hobby...I meant it as a thank you to the people who have taken time to help me.
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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby RichFrye » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:29 am

I'm really not offended nor do I feel judged, no sweat. It's nice to thank people.
My point is , yes its great to be nice and do all the things most of us like about the camaraderie of the hobby. But real long-term cred bottom line has little to do with being nice or friendly, it has to do with being good for the hobby. Which may include nice , but is not a prerequisite. Hobby credibility is about the frogs , what has person 'x' done with his frogs to establish 'cred'. When I am asked for credentials I'm betting the person looking 'em over is not looking for nor expects 'Nice Guy' to jump out.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:30 pm

I concur Rich ^

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:15 pm

oh....for enhanced Cred.....try using a REAL first name occasionally...at least. There are people who are content to lurk, use a catchy or funny SN and never really want to establish cred, and that's cool too.

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Flemish » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:29 pm

Oooh... That makes me a poser then! (!) :lol:
- Nah, sorry. I will soon make change of that, promise... ;)

On the serious side, if I am allowed to share on this topic even I have no influence in the US "market", breeding and trading!

We do not only need "Frog Credibility"... We also owe some credibility/ responsibility to the Frogs! (!)

Maybe you are already doing...
- I am concerned about inbreeding: F1 X+Y= brings FX offspring, and those FX breeds again with siblings. Etc.
Risk is faint colours and deformities, we don´t want that...

- I am suggesting to establish a community where males were traded with other males, to bring new blood "into the family"...
Or swap "tads"... Nah, of course not. But trade them away at 3 months age, with others!

Some thoughts from Denmark!
Flemming, Denmark.

http://www.regnskoven.dk/en/nature-cons ... de-sumaco/
(In English, about conservancy in Ecuador)

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby BluePumilio » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:15 pm

I think people worry too much about what everyone else should be doing. Do it yourself and raise the bar! Lead by example, not dictating.

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:07 pm

ever meet someone claiming to be in a professional organization and they DIDN'T have a business card or a website ?

You can't help but think they are not real, right ?

Someone at the recent reptile show said just about the same thing....ever wonder about breeders, hobbyists, business people who never post pics or their animals, vivs or frog rooms ?

Food for thought.

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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:41 pm

I heard an expression yesterday that seems to fit this topic.

"Your actions become your reputation."

I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby edwardsatc » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:50 pm

Rusty_Shackleford wrote:I heard an expression yesterday that seems to fit this topic.

"Your actions become your reputation."

I'll leave it at that.


Great quote

... and relevant to several recent hot threads ...

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Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby heyduke » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:01 pm

On the other hand there are a lot of old timers that rarely post on forums that are completely reputable. When was the last time we saw a pic of Phil Tans "frog room"? Yet he was a pioneer of this hobby.





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Re: Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:34 pm

There was no interweb back then...and only polaroid cameras...lol

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Establishing "Frog Credibility" in the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby heyduke » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:05 pm

Philsuma wrote:There was no interweb back then...and only polaroid cameras...lol


Ok... When was the last stone tablet hand etched with pictorial representations of frogs have we seen from Phil Tan lately? ;)


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