Is there a list of Hybrids ?

General Dart Frog Questions and Comments. Care and Husbandry
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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:11 pm

Was it a mixed display tank where an 'accidental' breeding occurred?

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RichFrye
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:23 pm

Was a waste ten years ago, still a waste of time today.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:23 pm

EntoCraig wrote:Was it a mixed display tank where an 'accidental' breeding occurred?

Nope...$$$
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

DKOOISTRA
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:29 pm

I did see one mixed tank, I think it was leucs and tincs. All were adults.
1.5 kids and a bunch of frogs

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:33 pm

They used to have a big-ish viv with a bunch of leucs (only) in it. They told me they had not gotten any production and wondered if I had any suggestions . I told them to try adding more than one coco-hut. Apparently coco-hut is synonymous with species.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:37 pm

RichFrye wrote:
EntoCraig wrote:Was it a mixed display tank where an 'accidental' breeding occurred?

Nope...$$$


Sad :(

Im curious... Does anyone opinion on hybrids change if these frogs were extremely common and not threatened?

I know in the fish world hybrids can be common in various cichlids, as well as mixed species tanks, but not very many people seem to care.

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:37 pm

Probably took the coco hut out of the tinc viv, frogs and all and plopped it in.
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:46 pm

Im curious... Does anyone opinion on hybrids change if these frogs were extremely common and not threatened?

I know in the fish world hybrids can be common in various cichlids, as well as mixed species tanks, but not very many people seem to care.


Nope. The conservation aspects of the hobby are really irrelevant to me. I really dont see someone someday knocking on my door and asking me to "contribute to the effort" (but I gladly would were someone to someday ask). I dont mix as I know its not healthy for the frogs, and, with the variety available, I dont see a reason to.
Derek
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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:59 pm

OK im going to stir the pot here a bit so don't flame me into the depths of hell for it...

Can we prove that hybridization is actually unhealthy or harmful to the frogs themselves?

And for those wondering, again I do not support hybridizing Dart Frogs...

The reason I ask is I want to know exactly why myself and others take this stance. The more facts I have the more solid the stance is.

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:07 pm

Hybridizing, "creating" frogs isn't necessarily unhealthy for the animals and offspring...I'm not following where you are going there.

Here's the "go-to" thread on Hybridization, crossing, inter-grading bla bla.....if there is some novel argument to be "stirred"...please tack it onto this thread.

general-questions-and-comments-f12/hybridizing-cross-breeding-and-mixing-dart-frogs-t4470.html

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:09 pm

I dont know that a hybridized frog is an unhealthy frog. But I do know that a vivarium containing more than one species of frog produces more dead frogs than a tank that has a single species (not from personal experience, just read a lot of threads). Its too complicated of an "ecosystem" (not sure if thats the correct word in this case) for us to set up in our relatively small tanks. I do however see it frequently on the dutch forums, but, looking at their tanks, they are massive (generally). It can be pulled off, but not by the normal "joe frogger". Just my opinion again.
Also, no flamers here, wrong forum:).
Derek
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:11 pm

I get ya, Derek.....I know what you mean. There's 50 things "wrong" and unhealthy about that Store and its particular mixed tank set-up....that's what you mean, right ?

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Michael Lawrence » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:19 pm

EntoCraig wrote:OK im going to stir the pot here a bit so don't flame me into the depths of hell for it...

Can we prove that hybridization is actually unhealthy or harmful to the frogs themselves?

And for those wondering, again I do not support hybridizing Dart Frogs...

The reason I ask is I want to know exactly why myself and others take this stance. The more facts I have the more solid the stance is.




Most of the hobby I hope would be more after the natural aspect of these frogs so to go into the health benefits or effects from hybridizing doesnt really matter. eventually there will be a break in the hobby from this like all the other herp hobbies and hybrids will start coming out everywhere. To keep on debating it wont do anything but stir up the mess and I thinks its at a point where ignoring the new posts and threads may be best.
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Michael Lawrence » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:22 pm

As for the average mixed viv, its no more harmfull to the frogs than a single species one if you QT, Test and put it together accordingly like what I hope most would do.
Everyday I meet someone I dislike, are you today's pick? If you dislike me it's because somethings wrong with you!

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:51 pm

Michael Lawrence wrote:Most of the hobby I hope would be more after the natural aspect of these frogs so to go into the health benefits or effects from hybridizing doesnt really matter....


It may hold not interest or importance to you but I myself am curious. I always like to know the ins and outs of topics that interest me. Genetics in general fascinate me.

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:54 pm

The short answer is yes. There are potential health dangers to outcrossing, just as there can be with inbreeding.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Michael Lawrence
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Michael Lawrence » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:15 pm

EntoCraig wrote:
Michael Lawrence wrote:Most of the hobby I hope would be more after the natural aspect of these frogs so to go into the health benefits or effects from hybridizing doesnt really matter....


It may hold not interest or importance to you but I myself am curious. I always like to know the ins and outs of topics that interest me. Genetics in general fascinate me.


My only point is that the #1 reason for yrs that Hybridizing is frowned upon has had nothing to do with the pros or conns from it on a genetic level. Simply trying to keep and manage the darts here as close to a natural representation as we can has been the idea of most. Once we jump into specifics on this just like in the minimal size viv and mixing threads there are those who jump in and start attacking the subject leaving new hobbyists and others with even more questions on the subject. I dont fault you for asking for specifics but it does always take a turn for the worse and leave an opening for those out to start a mess. If your after some of the info on the science of it I would be happy to dig through the many hundreds of debates and put something together for you.
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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 pm

I understand that, I was just looking for information for my personal knowledge. You are welcome to send me more info, but I don't want you to feel obligated. Thanks Michael.

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Michael Lawrence » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:29 pm

I was going to mention that if you want an example of what Im talking about as well as some info on it go to the other board and post up a thread title like ''genetic issues with outcrossing and hybridization'' They will jump right on it. Half of it may be wrong but you will see what Im talking about.
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:34 pm

:lol:

That might be fun... I typically stay off most of the other boards when it comes to frogs. This hobby is VERY opinionated... This site seems to be a bit more lax in the hostile opinions departments. Its nice because you can be new, or curious, and ask questions without being burned at the stake.

Thanks again Michael.


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