Is there a list of Hybrids ?

General Dart Frog Questions and Comments. Care and Husbandry
Juand15
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Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Juand15 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:31 am

Hello.

I dont know how a lot of you feel about such.

im against it. as long as it occurs in the wild its okay. but what i find wrong is that an individual would try to hybridize the frogs in order to make a couple extra bucks. (shame) last year i got the chance of going on a fish collecting trip we caught a new species of fish that some came to realize it was a cross (or a hybrid) between 2 species of predator cichlids. we had no clue that 1 of the species where in the area. ends up being it is in the wild and we know no human had to do with it so therefor we have a new species :)

so with that say is there a known list of frogs that are hybrids?

Thanks

Juan
Frog less but working to get started again! 2/5/16

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Philsuma
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:32 am

No list that I know of...

Your fish collecting trip wouldn't have been to Peru, would it ?

Juand15
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Juand15 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:42 am

Philsuma wrote:No list that I know of...

You're fish collecting trip wouldn't have been to Peru, would it ?


no it was to Uruguay.

I have a Trip planned and ready for march and that is to Colombia.

Juan
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RanaVenenosa
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RanaVenenosa » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:36 am

Juan, where you planning to visit in Colombia? I will be headed that way tentatively in May timeframe... plan is visit in-laws and then take 3 day excursion to Tayrona park in Santa Marta.

-Scott
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RichFrye
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:43 pm

Naturally occuring , anchicaya , a hybrid between histos and lehmanni.
In the hobby, ask Richard Lynch.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:50 pm

I love Uruguay cichlids! My favorite is Australoheros oblongum... Im currently sitting on about 200 fry!

As for hybrid frogs, I have seen maybe 3 pictures of documented hybrids. As I'm sure you are aware, most hobbyist are against it. I have only ever seen ground dwelling species mixed and not thumbnails or other colorful frog sp.

One thing to note in this hobby that is much different then the fish world is it is also looked down upon to mix color variations of the same species.

For example D. tinctorius 'Coblat' and D. tinctorius 'Regina' are the same species, though they have very unique color patters. Drastic environmental conditions have separated these species into many local morphs that, from what I understand, do not cross with other morphs naturally. Its fascinating to dive into this topic if you are curious.

Here is a helpful list of morphs, including 1 or 2 known hybrids. This list was very helpful to me!

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby fieldsmith » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:02 pm

Juand15 wrote: but what i find wrong is that an individual would try to hybridize the frogs in order to make a couple extra bucks. (shame)

Hey Juan,
I really wouldn't say that its common for people to intentionally produce hybrids or intergrades to make profit (though I can think of a couple of cases where that has happened)...more often it is accidental breeding in mixed tanks. The biggest problem is that people will try to pass off the intergrade frogs as a pure morph...I honestly think this is what I would worry about the most, not getting a hybrid (though it is possible, I've seen tincXauratus in person). It is good that you are thinking about these things even though you are just starting out, it shows that you will probably be a responsible dartkeeper.
Good Luck,
-Field
-Field Smith
Some frogs...

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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:08 pm

Good point fieldsmith. Isnt also one of the worries is the fact that frogs live a long time and a Hybrid has the potential to be 'in the hobby' for many years? Or a breeding pair of frogs, creating hybrids for years?

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:16 pm

^ Yep....frogs stay in the hobby a long time. Often much longer than the original owner / creator. It's common for frogs to have been owned by 3-4 different people.

I had frogs willed to me and they are now with someone else - hence 3-4 different owners.

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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:23 pm

Do you know if there is any solid info on hybrid PDF's? like if they are sterile? I know in the fish world some hybrids are and some are not. Some are healthy and vibrant and some are grossly deformed... I enjoy seeing some of the fish hybrids as they are awesome, but some are so deformed you wonder why its even being done in the first place.

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby fieldsmith » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:23 pm

And the fact that they stay around for a long time and are often passed from keeper to keeper means that lineage information can easily be lost, especially when people acquire frogs without asking for more information (line, previous owners, approximate age, etc...). That is why it is imperative to get frogs from responsible breeders/hobbyists (that is if you actually care about maintaining "clean" genetics...some don't, which is another problem).

EDIT: Craig...I think the biggest worry is intergrades, which shouldn't be sterile. I believe I remember a story about some leucXtinc offspring that were fertile, but my memory isn't the greatest.
-Field Smith
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Juand15
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby Juand15 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:47 pm

RanaVenenosa wrote:Juan, where you planning to visit in Colombia?

-Scott


I just got the email, since we are going for dwarf species of cichlids "Apistogrammas" we are thinking about going to Villavicencio to re discovered a species long lost in the hobby the true Apisto "Viejita"

EntoCraig wrote:I love Uruguay cichlids! My favorite is Australoheros oblongum... Im currently sitting on about 200 fry!

As for hybrid frogs, I have seen maybe 3 pictures of documented hybrids. As I'm sure you are aware, most hobbyist are against it. I have only ever seen ground dwelling species mixed and not thumbnails or other colorful frog sp.

One thing to note in this hobby that is much different then the fish world is it is also looked down upon to mix color variations of the same species.

For example D. tinctorius 'Coblat' and D. tinctorius 'Regina' are the same species, though they have very unique color patters. Drastic environmental conditions have separated these species into many local morphs that, from what I understand, do not cross with other morphs naturally. Its fascinating to dive into this topic if you are curious.

Here is a helpful list of morphs, including 1 or 2 known hybrids. This list was very helpful to me!


Great info Ento. i would love to see the pictures. as for Uruguayan cichlids/fish in general. IMO as a breeder they are one of the easiest fish to breed as you dont need heaters for them as they are subtropical fish. breed a few species from my trip and now working with a new species discovered in Ken Davis last trip this December Gymnogeophagus sp "invernada"

I'm glad people tend not to mix species of frogs makes me happy :D as im big time against hybridizing fish. and now frogs. (they could be the nicest fish/frog i will not support their reproduction)

fieldsmith wrote:
Juand15 wrote: but what i find wrong is that an individual would try to hybridize the frogs in order to make a couple extra bucks. (shame)

Hey Juan,
I really wouldn't say that its common for people to intentionally produce hybrids or intergrades to make profit (though I can think of a couple of cases where that has happened)...more often it is accidental breeding in mixed tanks., it shows that you will probably be a responsible dartkeeper.
Good Luck,
-Field


Thanks Field.
It happened with one of my beloved species of cichlids they reproduced twice and the male never fertilized the eggs so that gave me a relief. later on separated each fish.


Juan
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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:28 am

Juand15 wrote:Great info Ento. i would love to see the pictures. as for Uruguayan cichlids/fish in general. IMO as a breeder they are one of the easiest fish to breed as you dont need heaters for them as they are subtropical fish. breed a few species from my trip and now working with a new species discovered in Ken Davis last trip this December Gymnogeophagus sp "invernada"

I'm glad people tend not to mix species of frogs makes me happy :D as im big time against hybridizing fish. and now frogs. (they could be the nicest fish/frog i will not support their reproduction)


You can see my pics at projectaquaria.com. I have a link on the left side of the page
I would also love to see some pics of your other fish, etc. I will send you a PM so we dont derail this thread, unless of course you dont care because it is your thread!

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RichFrye
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:03 pm

Darts frogs from different species can interbreed producing viable , fecund offspring.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

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RichFrye
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:04 pm

Vents and variabilis are just two.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

DKOOISTRA
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:40 pm

I saw my first hybrid 2 weeks ago. At a pet store that had a variety of darts. They were auratus, labled "special hybrid". They actually were charging more for them than for the real deal. The scary part to me was that looking at them, I could not tell the difference between them and the ones that were labled as being "pure".
Derek
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EntoCraig
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby EntoCraig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:47 pm

Yep that is where the problem really comes in. I think its worse that the store is labeling them as special, and uping the price, giving the illusion that they are better, rare, or 'worth more'...

Were they adults? I know my frogs are really coloring/patterning up as they grow older. I wonder if as adults they look different??? still not good because someone is eventually going to buy them.

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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:50 pm

No, froglets. Bred at the store.
1.5 kids and a bunch of frogs

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RichFrye
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby RichFrye » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:00 pm

DKOOISTRA wrote:No, froglets. Bred at the store.


E. Lansing?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

DKOOISTRA
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Re: Is there a list of Hybrids ?

Postby DKOOISTRA » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:07 pm

Yup. You called it. I was excited to go there, until I saw them. I'd never been there before but had heard it was a worth while stop. Had some time to kill with a couple of the kids.... I debated on saying something, but looking the staff over figured it would be a waste of time.
1.5 kids and a bunch of frogs


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