9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

General Dart Frog Questions and Comments. Care and Husbandry
User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:52 am

Exciting, folks!

THIS, in my opinion, is the most significant importation of Dart Frogs that has occurred in the U.S Hobby to date !

Not just the rarity but the scope of the endevour and all that went into it. Sustainable captive breeding. Excellent and cutting edge husbandry methods. Paperwork - certificates, invoices, tracking numbers, CITES documents, individual animal codes. Sexed adults. Excellent packaging and transport. Team effort hobbyist involvement. The list of accolades goes on and on.

I'll be posting some pics here in this very thread but please FEEL FREE to interject with ANY comments or questions regarding the animals or the operation. Chris Sherman will be around here too hopefully and we can try to add even more buzz to this important milestone event.

~Phil

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:54 am

The boxes. 1 of 2. Christmas comes early this year, apparently.
Attachments
20150901_161827.jpg
The BIGGER of the two boxes

User avatar
zonz540
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:55 am
Location: Utah

9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby zonz540 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:14 pm

Teasing is no fun. We want to see what is INSIDE of the box, Phil.
Mostly Pums & Thumbs

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:22 pm

Closer...closer....you can begin to make out the treasure inside.
Attachments
20150901_161738.jpg
Contents of box

auratusross
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 5:33 am
Location: Wolverhampton England

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby auratusross » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:36 pm

Who have these frogs gone to? Im not looking for names i just mean is it individuals to keep or a distributor for resale? How many and what species have gone to the US ? Any idea about prices yet? (Im from the UK im just curious, not looking to snap them up!)

Regards, Ross

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:01 pm

auratusross wrote:Who have these frogs gone to? Im not looking for names i just mean is it individuals to keep or a distributor for resale? How many and what species have gone to the US ? Any idea about prices yet? (Im from the UK im just curious, not looking to snap them up!)

Regards, Ross


Hi Ross,

As I understand it,this shipment went to several private breeders who have pledged to manage them as individual breeding programes here in the U.S.

I was present when the boxes were opened and know all the recipients, but they are the owners and custodians of the frogs now. They alone will decide upon the level and scope of management of them, but to further clarify, it is not a distributor or single entity. It is a very small group of individuals who pre-purchased them.

There were Oophaga lemanni, Oophaga histrionica, Phyllobates aurotaenia, Dendrobates truncatus.

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:40 pm

I had a PM on 'mortality in shipping' on this particular import.

As far as I can tell, mortality was LESS than 1% ! That's pretty awesome folks. Packaging was very well executed.

auratusross
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 5:33 am
Location: Wolverhampton England

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby auratusross » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:33 pm

So am I correct in thinking it was a group of hobbyists that organised the shipment and cites import papers etc between themselves and Tesoros? Did red and yellow Lehmanni arrive in the US? What Histrionica arrived, I can see bullseyes with orange spots? Any idea on the prices? Only Sexed pairs etc?

Thanks, Ross

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:14 pm

Yes, the import was organized by a very small group of hobbyists and not a large or single entity.

Yes the 'Yellow and the Red' lehmanni. The 'red' look very much orange.

Red bullseyes the same...the spot is more orange than red. Just an observation.

And 6 large redheads

Coqui
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:13 am
Location: Long Island

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Coqui » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:08 am

This is great news indeed, HistoCrazy and I had the privilege to see a presentation given by Ivan and organized by Julio yesterday. There is still a lot of work to be done and hurdles to jump through. Ivan mentioned that hopefully before the summer of 2016 there will be another shipment from Tesoro. In the meantime, we should all continue to help anyway we can.

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:44 am

Remember folks, even though I am very supportive of this project, this is the Forum where you CAN ask the tough questions. If you wonder why certain people got the frogs and how that worked, I can't 100% guarantee a perfect answer but ask away and we will do our best to shed some light.

I think one question that may be tough to answer is 'How much did they cost' . Not from a sneaky standpoint, but just that peoples finances are pretty much private, as a given.

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:11 pm

More peectures....
Attachments
20150901_162300.jpg

Coqui
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:13 am
Location: Long Island

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Coqui » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:04 pm

Did it bother me that some people were chosen while others were passed by, yes. I think it should have been made public from the get go that the first shipment were going to a few breeders that have experience, I would have continue to donate money and time to this project as I am sure others would have done the same. However, time has passed and what was done cannot be changed. Personally, I have no animosity towards the people that got first dibs. Maybe a little jealousy, Lol. I really wish all the people who got them the best of luck and success. I hope we as a community continue to support Ivan, there are still many hurdles to get through.
PS. First dibs on offsprings.

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:19 pm

I think a few things went into the selection process:

#1 - Money. Small to medium donations are good and needed, but there are some people who threw down some LARGE money. It's a shame that most things in life boil down to $$, but Ivan had mortgage/ rent and utilities to pay among a ton of other costs and fees.

#2 - Geography. Since the importation seemed to 'settle' into the NY area, it was only natural that many of the very experienced guys were local and knew each other very well. HINT TO OTHERS- attend ALL the frog meets and conventions and 'Frog Days' you can. GET the face time. Shake hands. Meet people. Have beers. A small amount of these frogs went to some people who didn't live in the above geographic area AND never met face to face but again, that was not the norm. Most everyone knew each other pretty well.

There is a 'West Coast' Tesoros importation coming soon. I'd get some 'face time' with the big boyz on that coast, even if I had to travel a few hours to do it. Make contacts. Get yourself 'out there'.

#3. Experience. If you have...even under 5 years in the hobby and not a lot of large obligate success, then you most likely aren't even going to get a phone call on an import like this. This criteria may even be the most important. There is a LOT of pressure and responsibility on those few hobbyists right now. A lot. Imagine if you are one of those guys who 'gets to' report / tell the others that your frogs died somehow. Wow. I know 4 people who were asked to be in on this import and more or less turned it down due to that level of commitment and responsibility.

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:06 pm

Mark P,

No one is going to 'know the price' for two reasons...the fact that people paying big money for little coloured frogs will never want the exact amount to get out to their girlfriends, wives, accountants ect.

and the big one. Not everyone may have paid the same amount for the exact or similar frogs. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.Some people laid down a bigger deposit, yada yada. I just don't think that there is going to be a 'sticker'.

What you would charge Phil, the long time hobbyist and owner of a Forum may just be a LOT less than Wally the hobbyist of only a couple years....Or even more. Who knows.

I was there in the room with everyone and I did not ask. I think there were invoices for everyone but again, I didn't look at any out of respect to the buyers. Was this wrong?

if you really want transparency, the component of WHO got the frogs may be easier to solve than price.

User avatar
Sherman
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: New England

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Sherman » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:29 pm

I just got home from an "epic" and "historic" trip.
I will certainly add more information to this conversation and share the video of the talk (if it came out) as time goes on. For now just enjoy this, expressly not copy written image that was taken in the USA this morning.
P.S. Not my animal.
Attachments
lehmannisharable.JPG

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10495
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Philsuma » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:35 pm

awesome Chris...wow!

User avatar
Sherman
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: New England

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Sherman » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:14 pm

In no particular order, due to the fact that I am super tired, and the past three days have been a blur of awesome.

As for pricing, I do not know. I could not afford the obligates so I never asked. To respect the privacy of the parties involved, mostly the buyers, I will not even give guesstimates. I can say that 100% of the purchase price went to Tesoros de Colombia. There was no middle man.

A group of buyers, months ago, unsolicited by Tesoros de Colombia and of their own accord gave a substantial "deposit" on the obligates with zero guarantee that the permits would come in. That meant that if the permits were never issued they were straight out of luck. No frogs, no refund. Period. You lose, game over.

For perspective, the term "substantial" can be described as significantly larger than the entire amount that we raised from the Indiegogo campaign. This was a serious limb that these individuals waltzed out on.

This deposit is what made the Oophaga permit possible. Without this influx of money, at that particular time, the permits would not have happened. That is just how it is. These people stopped this whole crazy project from grinding to a seriously depressing halt.

It was only fair that the people that risked so much get the chance to reap the rewards. This was by no means the only qualification that landed these frogs in NYC. Like the post says, the frogs are in the hands of a group of people that have shown the means and ability to produce these animals and work together to share information and have each others backs.

After seeing them all, many of which were adult breeders (some calling from the cups, quack, quack) I would not be surprised if we get to see photos of eggs soon. The animals were divided up into pairs whenever possible to make sure that breeding can happen soon. We want these to breed like crazy so that everyone that wants one can have access as soon as possible. That is the sincere goal with this project; reduce demand for wild caught animals by supplying an alternative. Coming soon (I hope): $250 lehmanni for everyone!

There are some more frogs going to California soon very soon. I do not know the details of that shipment.

Alberto Cadolini.
Alberto is one of the best oophaga breeders that I have ever met. He seems to have the ability to "read" what frogs are saying and adapts his setups to suit their needs. (Only person I know with a chiller for a dart frog tank) He also has experience dealing with high end geckos and seems to have a grip on the equitable dispersion of these animals. I know that there are other very qualified people, but Alberto has stepped up in a big way to make this happen. He has been down to Colombia to meet with the staff members and get to know the operations. He was a major contributor to the funds that pushed this to fruition. He organized this import and will organize future importations as a member of the Tesoros team. Due to his understanding of the efforts put forth by the others that have made this happen and the many hundreds of thousands of dollars spent getting here, he will be doing this "pro bono". All of the money for these frogs will go directly to Tesoros de Colombia.

Inquiries about frogs can be directed to him at acadolini@tesorosdecolombia.com

I have spent the past few days with Ivan. I think he had his first good night sleep in 9 years the other night. It is good to see him smile. This has been a very long time coming for him. I sincerely hope that this is a turning point for him and the beginning of a different chapter in his life and the life of this project. I hope that this is the turning point that makes our donations a luxury to put toward his other worthy projects and not the necessity that they have been to continue.

He is currently working on a repatriation project for truncatus. They are hoping to reintroduce them back to an area that previously had them. This is a pilot project that may some day help bring lehmanni back to places in the wild.

This is most definitely a time to celebrate. Ivan is in New Orleans with Yeager right now, and if I know Justin, there is some celebration going on.

Please, ask questions if you have them. But I ask that you refrain from unnecessary speculation. I have attached my name to this project because I believe in the motivation of the people involved. I will be as forthcoming with information as I can be. This was not a business started for profit. Ivan was doing just fine before he started this. Ivan is a conservationist and that is where his heart is.

Lastly, I would like to thank you. Yes, you personally. If you have read through all of this, you care in some way, shape or form about the well being of these critters and none of this would be amount to anything without your support.
Thank you very much.

Stu&Shaz
Senior Member
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: Vale of Evesham.Worcs

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Stu&Shaz » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:43 pm

Hey Chris,wow thanks mate I can't believe you wrote all this for me 8) I'm very grateful :lol:

Sorry Chris but this is the happiest best thing that has happened to the world hobby for eons I know folks are talking a bit elsewhere,but I expected to have to wade through hours of posting here aswell,I'm shocked,but hey ya got a taker. Ivan Lozano Ortega is to be utterly congratulated for his outstanding contribution to his native countries wild fauna He is every thing and more I thought him to be and by the looks of it he can breed a frog a bit too. i'm aware the stock is of exceptional quality.

I want to thank him and all others for backing him I'm amazed that he has never given up and I hope this is utterly the start of a new and bright future for him his family Tesoros and all involved

Simply amazing what a story...simply what a story
nuff said
Stu

User avatar
Sherman
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: New England

Re: 9/1/15 Tesoros import NYC !!

Postby Sherman » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:43 am

Stu,

I took the silence here to mean that I described the events to everyone's satisfaction and I assumed everyone was just sitting back in quiet reflection on how frigging awesome this all is.

Wicked subtle hint:
I might have some more to say this weekend, we'll see.
Attachments
print.JPG


Return to “General Questions and Comments”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 47 guests