"Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
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Philsuma
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"Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:11 pm

The following are some very simplistic, but good, quick recommendations to apply to a Dart Frog that "isn't doin' well" or appears lethargic or "sick" until you can either get more information online or from a Vet that deals with exotics / Dart Frogs. Keep in mind that I am not a Vet and this information is what I would personally do. I am only providing it here as a thought provoking thread / topic and it is not designed to take the place of advice from a Vet. I encourage everyone to contact a Vet, should they have any questions or concerns about any animal that they own.


1.Increase the humidity. Whatever it is....percentage-wise....just Increase it. Spray more clean water in the enclosure. To be on the safe side and to simplify, I would use "Grocery Store Spring water". Do not use distilled, Reverse Osmosis or public "tap" water in this case. Make sure you have a Glass Top the covers @ 90% of your tank top.

2. Up the Temperature slightly- a couple degrees only. Unless it's already 80F or above, that is. So basically, if your temps are maxing out at 72F and your frog is not eating / doing well, up the Temps to 76F. AVOID temp swings - highs and lows, and shoot for a steady temp. Avoid drafts (near windows) and heat from direct sunlight as well. Do NOT use a heat rock, heating pad or large bulb on top of the cage .Use gentle "room temperature" increased heating.

3. Provide a lot of "Hides" - Pothos or Pothos-like plants, Coco huts, Film canisters, Cork Flats and Leaf Litter (my fav). Separate the frog from the others. If a frog "isn't doin' well" - Separate it into it's own enclosure.

4. Try to disturb the frog as little as possible - popping off the lid, digging around the tank excessively. You want to be able to see the frog occasionally and check on it, but not every few hours. Try not to overfeed fruit flies, so that they are not crawling all over the tank stressing out the frog.

5. Consider a simple Quarantine or Temporary enclosure with clean moist paper and hides like above examples. This will facilitate collection of fecal samples to provide to a Vet. SEPERATE the frog that isn't doing well, if it is in a tank with other frogs.

6. Try to feed dusted Smaller Fruit flies from a vitamin supplement and calcium supplement that is not out of date ,i.e not past the 6 month Expiration date listed on the side of the container. Try to only feed a few flies every day or 2 - more if the frog eats them all. If the frog is on the skinny side but shows a decent appetite - feed it as much as it will eat. You could also consider Fruit Fly larvae as it is a good food item to put weight on a frog.

6. (a) CHANGE you vitamins / Calcium products. If in doubt as to a lot of things, an easy, cheap try would be to replace your existing supplements and buy fresh, new ones.

7. If you are feeding crickets....Stop. Crickets are problematic for most darts and even small ones can crawl all over a sick frog and cause further stress. Use Fruit Flies instead of Crickets or Crix.

8. Post on a Dart Frog Only Forum and consider an exotic animal Vet. Try to provide pics to your postings.

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RichFrye
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Re: "Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby RichFrye » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:35 pm

I would add lowering lights to almost off levels when frogs are sick or stressed...and in some cases when they are perfectly fine.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: "Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby Philsuma » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:01 pm

"Thin' frog??

#1 - buy new/fresh supplements, preferably Rapashy. An easy and relatively cheap good, reasonable first step.

#2 - discontinue feeding ANY springtails. Feed only small dusted Melanogaster. The skinny frog needs powdered vitamins and calcium. Springtails are not going to get the needed powdered supps into the frog. Flies are. Dust all flies, every feeding,

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Re: "Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby Philsuma » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:28 pm

# 6 (a)fix - Change your supplements. Easy and Cheap way to BEGIN to troubleshoot your frog problems.

When something is wrong - thin frog, problem eating yada yada

BUY NEW / FRESH SUPPLEMENTS

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Re: "Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby Philsuma » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:49 am

Remember folks, this is a luxury HOBBY for 98% of us. Most people cannot afford veterinary visits, bills, testing ect. It would be nice to have 3-4 fecal exams, 2-3 BD and Rana test but lets be HONEST with ourselves here. We need to provide BEST PRACTICE advice - simple, first-things-first type stuff.

Things that can immediately be done that will have a large 'bang for your buck' impact in keeping:

FOR NEW HOBBYISTS:

#1 Do not house multiple species and animals other than dart frogs together -even in a partitioned enclosure. The risk of disease and pathogen transference is high and with prices of standard 20 gallon glass tanks, there is almost no good reason to try to cut costs and make a 'group' or mixed species enclosure, especially no good reason for a new hobbyist. Keep it simple at first, to include numbers of animals. Instead of buying 4-5 tincs for your first frogs, buy 2 or maybe three. Go easy and simple at first.

#2 Drowning in water features, and impaction by ingestion coco fibre - that crap that looks like coffee grounds, are REAL. Research the right type of substrate and use LEAF LITTER. Lots of leaf litter.

#3 Poor substrate and enclosure design is very common among new hobbyists. Take your time and read and click on threads that show design and substrate composition.

#4 Feed properly dusted small fruit flies. No crickets. No roaches. And springtails are NOT a staple feeder. Fruit flies are the staple. If you cannot or will not provide properly dusted fruit flies to your dart frogs, you will fail. It's just that simple.

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Re: "Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby joneill809 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:34 pm

Philsuma wrote:Remember folks, this is a luxury HOBBY for 98% of us. Most people cannot afford veterinary visits, bills, testing ect. It would be nice to have 3-4 fecal exams, 2-3 BD and Rana test but lets be HONEST with ourselves here. We need to provide BEST PRACTICE advice - simple, first-things-first type stuff.

I understand where you are coming from when you are setting up for an animal, but we need to give greater consideration to situations where animals start dropping in numbers, where deaths are unexplained, or where animals didn't respond to treatment. In these cases you're going to have to shell out money for tests to figure out specifically what is / went wrong, and what you need to do to stop it quickly, or use the data in the future. I've been more vocal in using necropsies as a diagnostic tool for collections because I think it's not talked about that often, and I see a lot of guessing rather than looking for ways to obtain better data.

I think we need to raise the vet care perspective so people start thinking and budgeting for this. Perhaps you get 1 or 2 fewer morphs, and bank that cash for future care against existing animals. Costs people don't think of:

  • medicine on hand: Whether it's a kit from Frogs N Things or Dr. Frye, you could be looking at $40 to $100 up front and a fraction of that for replenishing medicine that you have on hand in the event of an illness.
  • fecal: $25 for fecal screens, plus shipping, if you are going to check your animals - can be run on incoming animals as a group. Usually front loaded, consider budgeting for 2 to 4 tests along with an acquisition.
  • PCR: $18 per test for BD/RV, so about $40 total for a PCR screening on a swab (plus shipping) - can be run on incoming animals as a group. Consider budgeting for 1 to 2 tests along with an acquisition.
  • necropsy: $120 to $300 depending on what additional tests are recommended. This is very useful in diagnosing issues when treatments fail. I think it's important as a safeguard for larger collections. I also recommend figuring out what you would need to do ahead of time because of the limited window you have in getting one done. Find a local vet, or contact a local university that has a strong vet program. Have shipping addresses figured out in advance. You may never use this option, but at least you will have the details worked out.

We focus on the costs when things are going well, but we have to consider budgeting for costs when things go pear shaped too. Just my unsolicited advice. :mrgreen:
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: "Help Desk level 1" Basic Frog fixes. 101

Postby Philsuma » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:17 pm

Now Jim, you know how much I despise unsolicited advice.


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