Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
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Philsuma
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Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Thu May 05, 2011 7:29 pm

Quarantine procedures as they apply to the Dart Frog Hobby:

What is Quarantine?
Quarantine is compulsory isolation, typically to contain the spread of something considered dangerous, often but not always disease. Quarantine is as much about OBSERVATION as it is about treatments and administrating medication. The word comes from the Italian (seventeenth century Venetian) quarantena, meaning forty-day period. Quarantine can be applied to humans, but also to animals of various kinds. Isolation and Separation are synonyms.

Why should I use Quarantine?
Because it is an easy REASONABLE first step to observing and ensuring your frogs are in decent health and condition. Say you are un-boxing a shipment of frogs that you paid for and received cross country. The first thing you want to do is to make certain that the transaction has been completed properly and that the frogs are in good health. The best way and most reasonable method is a simple quarantine enclosure to observe the animals. This procedure, accompanied with numerous photographs is also the BEST way of safeguarding your transaction and documenting the condition of the newly acquired frogs. The reverse of this, is that you DON’T perform an adequate quarantine procedure, when so many responsible hobbyists do, and then you are left looking like someone who takes short cuts and under values the health and well being of the animals, not to mention, you have MUCH less of a legal leg to stand on should a problem develop further down the road.
The main reason for quarantine is that once you place animals into a fully constructed vivarium, there’s no turning back. Any issues, problems, discovered diseases or parasites are going to mean that the whole shebang is contaminated or infected and will have to be torn done. If you have to obtain fecal samples or begin a regime of treatment and medication, a fully prepared vivarium is not the place you want to consider doing it. Think about the potential horror story of having to rip apart a large Exoterra that has a ton of great stuff, wood and water features and full plantings!

When to use a Quarantine procedure?
Quarantine methods are utilized in two main ways:

1. For all newly acquired frogs, no matter where, or from whom, they came. Even if you are told that the frogs are kept in impeccable conditions and the breeder / seller has never had a single instance of any parasite or problem – it’s still always best to consider quarantining all animals.

2. For frogs that have been in your collection for a period of time but appear to have developed an illness, disease or possible injury also for a particular frog that appears to not feed adequately, is otherwise too timid around other frogs or perhaps the opposite – too aggressive. It’s always best to err on the side of caution and Isolate / Separate any frog if you perceive a problem that you are unsure how to deal with or correct. Do NOT wait and allow the problem to magnify and the animal to go downhill.

How do I use a Quarantine procedure?
A quarantine container / enclosure should be simple – something easy to clean and disinfect. It should be of “medium size” and not too small or too large. A good size for a single frog would be a 10 gallon glass fish tank or one of the large size plastic critter carriers.
The contents should also be simple, easy to clean or discard and comfortable for the animal to hide in. A generous amount of Pothos is an excellent plant choice as it’s cheap, easy to obtain, hardy and can be thrown away. Live plants like broad leaved Pothos not only provide excellent hides, shelter and comfort in an otherwise bare environment, but they also have the added ability to help retain moisture and provide a wet microclimate for the frog. Some dried and sterilized Magnolia leaves for bottom leaf litter are good to use as well as these baked, boiled and otherwise pre sterilized prior to being placed in the quarantine enclosure. Finally a few layers of moist plain, non-colored paper towel should be used as a substrate – on the bottom of the enclosure. Paper towels are easy to make sure of being at the proper moisture level – sight, as well as easy to discard and replace with new.

USE CLIPPED PLANTS / POTHOS. NO SOIL OR 'DIRT'. JUST CLIPPINGS

Items you do not want to place in a quarantine tank would be: rocks, gravel, wood features, dirt, standing pools of water. These items are very hard to disinfect and clean.

Length or duration of Quarantine?

@ 40 Days ?


Here is an example of a Quarantine procedure that revealed hookworms and the treatment regime that took place in the quarantine enclosure: * Note* This is an example of a particular owners decision and regime. It is NOT a template to be followed to the "T" and replicated. It is only an example. A dart frog experienced VET is always the best choice for medical advice on your particular frog species and issues.

Day 1 - Place frogs in QT and observe
Day 2 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 3 - Observe
Day 4 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 5 - Observe
Day 6 - Observe
Day 7 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 8 - Observe
Day 9 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 10 - Collect fecals (3-5 poops per viv), Overnight fecals to vet for examination. Observe
Day 11 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe - Results should come this day if you send to Dr. Frye he does same day results. Follow his guidelines for treating. Most likely it will be Panacur dusted FF ones a week for four weeks.
Day 12 - Observe
Day 13 - Observe
Day 14 - Feed FF dusted with ground up Panacur. Grind up the Panacur granule and dust FF with the fine powder. Observe
Day 15 - Move frogs to a new CLEAN QT and observe
Day 16 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 17 - Observe
Day 18 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 19 - Observe
Day 20 - Observe
Day 21 - Feed FF dusted with ground up Panacur. Grind up the Panacur granule and dust FF with the fine powder. Observe
Day 22 - Move frogs to a new CLEAN QT and observe
Day 23 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 24 - Observe
Day 25 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 26 - Observe
Day 27 - Observe
Day 28 - Feed FF dusted with ground up Panacur. Grind up the Panacur granule and dust FF with the fine powder. Observe
Day 29 - Move frogs to a new CLEAN QT and observe
Day 30 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 31 - Observe
Day 32 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 33 - Observe
Day 34 - Observe
Day 35 - Feed FF dusted with ground up Panacur. Grind up the Panacur granule and dust FF with the fine powder. Observe
Day 36 - Move frogs to a new CLEAN QT and observe
Day 37 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 38 - Observe
Day 39 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 40 - Observe
Day 41 - Observe
Day 42 - Feed Calcium dusted FF and observe
Day 43 - Observe
Day 44 - Feed Vitamin dusted FF and observe
Day 45 - Collect fecals (3-5 poops per viv). Overnight fecals to vet for examination. Observe
Day 46+ - Repeat from Day 11 on if frogs still have something that requires treatment, otherwise keep feeding every other day or so and send off new fecal every 2 weeks until you get 3 clean fecals returned.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Thu May 05, 2011 7:32 pm

This is just the start of the sticky....anyone can either tack some info directly onto this post or PM me with info.

Addtional info will then be formulated into the sticky .

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Stu&Shaz » Fri May 06, 2011 5:02 pm

Wonderful post Phil,thank you ! Ok, so one has got to the stage of clean fecals, how much longer before one can put the frogs in a viv ?

Secondly, reading a post somewhere about worming and worm burdens, is it possible that a low level worm burden can be of benefit to the frogs (obviously the vets advice is to be taken and acted on).

Third,I have just checked our little pot of panacur,which is made especially for darts in Holland, it says to dose for 3 days, take 2 days off then repeat if necessary. This allows no time for the remedy to take effect and have fecals done,it is extrordinarily difficult to find a vet here in the UK with the specialist knowledge needed,so i guess your tried and PROVED methods are the way to go,that is if my drug is the same as yours(it is panacur but we have no idea of strength,other than it is designed for darts).

Thank you again,

Stu

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Fri May 06, 2011 5:31 pm

Stu,

The above post is in regards to the quarantine procedure and not specifically medication.

Remember - Quarantine does not automatically mean medication.

As always, any application of drugs should always be under the direction and supervision of a qualified exotic animal vet. In the absence of that, I would rely on the owner of Dart Frog - business or some trusted local hobbyists to kind of shepard your way into using panacur.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Stu&Shaz » Fri May 06, 2011 6:45 pm

Philsuma wrote:Stu,

The above post is in regards to the quarantine procedure and not specifically medication.

Remember - Quarantine does not automatically mean medication.

As always, any application of drugs should always be under the direction and supervision of a qualified exotic animal vet. In the absence of that, I would rely on the owner of Dart Frog - business or some trusted local hobbyists to kind of shepard your way into using panacur.

Sorry about going off topic!! and thanks for the advice ,although the very first part of the question needs elaborating
Ok we have our clean fecals, now would one still keep the frogs in quarrantine for a statutory period ...say 3 or 6 months...to take into account problems that the fecals might not show up,maybe chytrid is an example of this. So speficially,if our obsevations are all good,what is the length of time where we can be 100% sure that the frogs are "clean"?
Do you utilise any form of sterilising solution,to clense your used containers,after each stage of the Q.
thanks again
Stu

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Fri May 06, 2011 7:49 pm

Good question about serilization !

Most people use a 5% bleach solution (95% water) followed by a 100% clean water rinse.

anyone use anything else ?

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby cablemandan » Fri May 20, 2011 1:05 am

I heard vinegar then bleach double rinse from the guy I bought my frogs from. Also 40+ days QT?

I thought it was a bit excessive for my 30 day plan. I brought both my kids home 3 days after they were born fer cryin out loud.

So any frogs I want to see next year I should purchase and qt now? And how much undue stress is caused for the sake of 'making them clean' for the fifth of a year in a little box so you can poke your nose in and make sure everyhting is ok?
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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Azurel » Fri May 20, 2011 8:31 am

cablemandan wrote:I heard vinegar then bleach double rinse from the guy I bought my frogs from. Also 40+ days QT?

I thought it was a bit excessive for my 30 day plan. I brought both my kids home 3 days after they were born fer cryin out loud.

So any frogs I want to see next year I should purchase and qt now? And how much undue stress is caused for the sake of 'making them clean' for the fifth of a year in a little box so you can poke your nose in and make sure everything is ok?



Fecals 2 weeks apart for 3 consecutive test of negative is 6 weeks it sounds like a long time but having infected frogs, infecting a completely built viv that will have to be torn down and started over seems like a lot more work then housing frogs in a temp container. I use 5g tanks with glass cut for the lid I add leaf litter, springs, cuttings of plants. They seem to settle in with little stress.

It sounds like a big process but in reality it isn't much work to do and the out come is well worth it in the end.

But in the end it is your choice to do so. Most in the hobby recommend I, but there is no hard fast rule or anything that can be forced on you.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby DKOOISTRA » Mon May 30, 2011 3:46 pm

Fecal testing is not the only reason for QT though. Its easier to monitor them if they are not in a viv with tons of hides and plants etc... to make sure they are eating, not losing weight, that kind of thing too.
1.5 kids and a bunch of frogs

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:11 pm

cablemandan wrote:
I thought it was a bit excessive for my 30 day plan. I brought both my kids home 3 days after they were born fer cryin out loud.

So any frogs I want to see next year I should purchase and qt now? And how much undue stress is caused for the sake of 'making them clean' for the fifth of a year in a little box so you can poke your nose in and make sure everything is ok?


Like 99.76 % of EVERYTHING in this hobby....there is no definitive or set-in-stone methodology. If you want to perform a 30 day Q-tine regime and you are comfortable with it and what you are trying to achieve, then go for it.

I think, for purposes of fecal examinations though, it's been widely circulated that 3 testings with 7-10 days in between fecal samples will bring you to roughly 24 to 33 days, if my math is correct, but again....no one is going to be able to say that you are truly screwing up if you have your own valid reasons why you make adjustments.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby blocker institute » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:02 am

In regards to "observation", what sort of signs is one looking for and how long (at a time) should this observation take place? In q'tine and by not being in their natural habitat or even in their pseudo habitat, there's no way to observe their "natural" behavior in a tub/tank with little settling in time. Unless it's just a down and out frog with outwardly showing symptoms, how many diseases, can/have been caught with this method?

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:40 am

You are looking for feeding problems. This is the #1 observation bar none, IMO.

Short tongue. Inability to feed.

Aggressiveness (or lack of) of feeding.

then:

Injuries. Wounds.

Locomotion problems and issues.

Signs of sub cut nematodes (def for WC frogs).

and we can probably list another 5-6 other things to look for. I think you are getting caught up in associating Q-tine with active , medical treatments. That's certainly a component and use of that aspect of husbandry but observation is equally important IMO.

Now I guess the new hobbyist would be a bit disadvantaged - not knowing some of the care and husbandry issues and problems that only a more experienced hobbyist would be able to recognize. That's why mentoring and finding a senior hobbyist is HUGELY important.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Michael Lawrence » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:27 pm

Philsuma wrote:Now I guess the new hobbyist would be a bit disadvantaged - not knowing some of the care and husbandry issues and problems that only a more experienced hobbyist would be able to recognize. That's why mentoring and finding a senior hobbyist is HUGELY important.



This is why I take issue with new hobbyists jumping straight in and buying up proven or paired frogs for breeding. Quarantine is very important but does not take away from time spent watching and learning from your frogs behavior. I definitely agree with some time served acting as a helping hand to a senior hobbyist or two. I believe Lisa did this for someone recently and it was a huge help.

I didn't see this listed but may have missed it. Quarantine can also be used as a chance to watch for signs of sex and courting behavior for pairing up frogs naturally. Its also a way to watch and learn if a group of frogs are CB or smuggled if you have doubts on the background of something you've recently acquired. They are usually easy to tell apart.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Lady Bullseye » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:47 pm

If buying a group of frogs or froglets that are already together, would the quarantine be as a group or individual? I ask because if they had an issue, it would be already "shared" among them, so if it came back as something needing treatment, you could then separate to get individual results. What is the proper way?
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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:53 pm

If they were already kept together and then transferred to you, and you plan on continuing to keep them together....then yes, no problem with a group quarantine. If you desire fecals, the whole group could be tested that way as well.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby ryboyd » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:43 am

I was just curious Philsuma if you wouldn't mind posting some pics of your quarantine setups?

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:27 pm

ryboyd wrote:I was just curious Philsuma if you wouldn't mind posting some pics of your quarantine setups?


You're a couple months too late. My entire frog room is gone...well, with the exception of a drip wall tank and terrarium that came back to me early.

My q-tine enclosures were the medium / sweaterbox size KIS plastic "tote containers" filled with spaghnum and mag leaves and pothos. Nothing else. Easy peasy.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Shane91 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:00 pm

This is probably one o the best threads for quarantine I have read all over the Internet hitch was a hassle finding one I liked the most :) thanks Phil my tarapotos will be started today as soon as they come in :)))))!!!!!

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Philsuma » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:20 pm

Interesting about the water dish! I totally get it - WC animals, stressed and dehydrated need extra water.

So many people desire to place frogs in the 190oz round tubs that when you take the lid off, it sounds like a gunshot. I call them heart attack tubs. Point is, a quarantine enclosure should be 10 gallons for most sized frogs and even bigger for tincs or lager -like 15 -20 gallons.

Pothos are SO very important for this practice, I feel. The live plant grows when cut, so no need to root or worry. It's bullet proof and easy to sanitize and then discard when done. The leaves are nice and large for good hides and the plant retains moisture so well, that is also elevates the general humidity level of the tank and maintains it !

Indispensable, IMO.

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Re: Quarantine procedures for the Dart Frog Hobby

Postby Lanthia » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:28 pm

Philsuma wrote:
ryboyd wrote:I was just curious Philsuma if you wouldn't mind posting some pics of your quarantine setups?



My q-tine enclosures were the medium / sweaterbox size KIS plastic "tote containers" filled with spaghnum and mag leaves and pothos. Nothing else. Easy peasy.


Do you recommend sphagnum vs using paper towels and why?

I spent this afternoon removing the shotgun sound/heart attack effect on my quarantine tubs. I am getting my frogs this week.


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