unusual Ranitomeya movement

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
holtz015
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unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Sat May 11, 2013 2:17 am

I have a female Ranitomeya amazonica that is behaving very unusually and I think something is very wrong. This evening she was at the bottom of the vivarium, with a lot of dirt on her back, and when she tried to move, her hops were uncontrolled (usually resulting in a nose-plant type move) and somewhat circular. I thought something might be wrong with her front left limb, or almost like a stroke-victim would be on one side, as she is leaning heavily towards one side, but I'm not sure that is it.

This morning she appeared fine, she was up on the glass. And a couple days ago she laid 4 eggs. So this change happened within a period of 8 hrs or so. We have 2 male frogs in there with her. I don't know what to do. Do I remove her?? Can I treat her???

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated!

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Philsuma
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby Philsuma » Sat May 11, 2013 8:01 am

1. Separate any frog with a problem. Make sure the new enclosure has plenty of places to hide and retreat to.

What supplementation are you using and describe your feeding routine.

Any glues, paints, smells, nearby cleansers, bug spray...anything that could cause fumes ?

BcsTx
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unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby BcsTx » Sat May 11, 2013 8:54 am

Sounds like seizures to me, could be due to not enough humidity or calcium deficiency.
Like Phil said what are you dusting with and how often?
-Beth

holtz015
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Sat May 11, 2013 11:21 am

I'm using ReptoCal Calcium supplement 2 to 3 times a week dusted on fruit flies (FF). However, I was out of town the past week and had someone come to feed them and they did not dust FF. If it is a calcium deficiency, is it reversible? The vivarium is humid with condensation on the glass at all times - it is sprayed/misted 2 times a day. She's able to jump on to the glass this morning, however, she is not using her front left front limb like it is injured. No cleaners/solvents have been used around them. The other frogs in the vivarium seem okay. I'll try to take some photos and post them.

BcsTx
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unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby BcsTx » Sat May 11, 2013 12:16 pm

Can be reversed if caught in time.
Are you using the vit D as well?
Been a long time since I used them but 2 containers one is light blue and the other is pink.
Did you check the dates? Should be less than 6 mos old.
-Beth

holtz015
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Sat May 11, 2013 12:25 pm

It's the blue container with vitamin D with an expiration date of August 2015

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Philsuma
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby Philsuma » Sat May 11, 2013 12:43 pm

Could be a physical injury.

Whatever the problem, stress with other frogs and breeding behaviour will only make it worse. I cannot stress how important it is to separate that frog in an enclosure by itself.

I would then buy 'Rapashy' superfine powdered supplement and use it instead of what you are currently using. Not saying for sure, that what you have is bad, but whenever there is a potential nutritional issue, the EASY chance to solve it is to buy a new and different powder - calcium and especially vitamin and see if that helps.

jeffr
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby jeffr » Sat May 11, 2013 12:51 pm

The calcium is the pink labeled jar and the vitamins are the blue lable. Unless they changed their labling recently

holtz015
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Sat May 11, 2013 12:54 pm

Here of some pictures of her, she wasn't too easy to photograph this morning. She is irritated by the substrate getting on her back, so we will try to move her to another enclosure with moist unbleached paper towels on the bottom (and hiding spots).
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Philsuma
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby Philsuma » Sat May 11, 2013 12:57 pm

go to a local greenhouse and buy a large 'pothos' plant. Make sure they don't use chemicals, perticides ect. Take it and cut it up so that you have a tangle of stems, leaves ect. Oh and totally remove all soil .Pothos grows just fine in decent humidity without any soil. You can use a ton of this plant.

Pothos will give your frog a lot of security and it will help hold in the high humidity and moisture, while your frog is in it's temporary enclosure.

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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby Philsuma » Sat May 11, 2013 1:32 pm

I would 100% NOT try to 'pop' a frogs joint back into place. I've had frogs with locomotion problems before and they actually 'grow out of it" - all by themselves.

There are dozens of more 'bad' things that could come out of trying to manipulate a small animal than to just leave it alone, IMHO.

Again, bear in mind these are hobby forums that you are posting on. There are very few, if any, vets here. Nothing posted on a hobby forum should be construed as perfect advice nor should it be taken in lieu of speaking with an actual veterinarian.

holtz015
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Tue May 14, 2013 5:10 pm

Hey all,
The Ranitomeya with the arm problem was brought to a vet today that specializes in herps. He suggested that the arm may have a hairline fracture as the arm is still mobile (wouldn't be if it was a dislocated from the shoulder). He suggested for a treatment using a UVB light source even though the FF have been dusted with calcium /vitamin D3 supplements as proper absorption still requires natural UVB light (310nm). I am currently using a white light led light source. Do any light suppliers sell leds in the 310nm spectra? Seems a little harsh on the eyes if the leds are emitting only this spectra; does anyone know if mixed leds with multiple led spectra are sold? Thank you to everyone for the helpful suggestions!

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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby joneill809 » Tue May 14, 2013 6:22 pm

I'd check with Todd over at lightyourreptiles.com - typically he recommends LEDs supplemented with UVB CFLs. You will also need to modify your lid to allow for UVB transmission if you have not already done that.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

holtz015
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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Sat May 18, 2013 4:17 pm

I have an all-glass 10 gallon vertical tank. How would you modify it to allow UVB light transmission?

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Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby joneill809 » Sat May 18, 2013 7:45 pm

I'm not sure how you would do it on a vert conversion. I keep all my frogs in exoterras or zoomeds so it's easier to shape the tops to allow UVB transmission. You need to use something like stainless steel mesh over an area of the tank where the UVB bulb will be located. I suppose you could orient the tank so you are looking in the original front panel of the 10g, then screen in a section of the door area with the stainless mesh and mount your UVB bulb on the side. I think I read on a thread where someone had used a "portable" UVB setup where they dosed a tank for a set period of time by temporarily mounting a fixture to the side of the tank. Seems like a lot of work.

I'll defer to anyone that has worked with lighting vert conversions. Do you have a photo of the enclosure? Perhaps a picture would trigger other ideas from the mod-happy froggers on the forum. Sorry I can't be of much help. How is the limb doing?
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

holtz015
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:16 am
Location: San Mateo

Re: unusual Ranitomeya movement

Postby holtz015 » Thu May 30, 2013 12:32 am

Hi, sorry for the delayed response. I just moved over the past 2 weeks. She is looking much better I have a Reptisun UVB CFL on a temporary 5 gallon set up until she is ready to go back into the 10 gallon vertical. For the 10 gallon vertical tank I have a Reptisun UVB CFL lighting through the mesh screen (see photo) and the males seem to be doing well. However I would like to see someone, somewhere making better lighting systems for tanks other than Zoomed and Exo Terra tanks. Frankly, I do not like the design of either of those tank systems. I wish someone could develop LED lighting with 320 nm UVB LEDs inter-mixed with white LEDs that can be shown through the screen mesh. I've seen similar lighting systems for aqua forest aquarium tanks that have "mod"-designed lighting systems that are also functional and beneficial to the inhabitants of the tanks. I am just happy that my Ranitomeya frogs are mending and knowing that UVB was the limiting factor.
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