Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
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RichFrye
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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby RichFrye » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:26 am

Armson wrote:Oh thats just F$%^& great. I was a least hoping that the virus would kill them off if they were infected. That way I at least could be a little more hopeful about the upcoming exams.



Only the decals which were clean.... this was almost 2+ years ago. I am leaning toward trashing the entire viv just to be on the safe side.



If you had three full sets of fecals come back clean the chances are the tank will not be infected by parasites like hookworms and lungworms, but I don't really see the upside to keeping a viv that may be infected by who knows what undetectable-now disease.
I would definitely scrap the viv.

There is WAY more unknown about rana in our hobby than is known. And from my understanding the strain/s of rana that effect darts is symptomatic in tads before and more so than adult frogs.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:15 pm

joneill809 wrote:Found this link on swabbing methods useful.

http://www.sandiegozoo.org/images/uploa ... elines.doc
Using a single swab, gently swab the ventral surfaces of the skin approximately 20-30 times. Target areas to include the pelvic patch (5 passes with the swab), ventral thighs (5 passes each side with the swab) and toe webbing (5 passes on each foot). It is not necessary to swab the dorsal skin surfaces.

Followed this method for retesting a representative frog from two groups (it was quite challenging catching them lol so I was fine with testing one frog per enclosure). Lorenzos were acquired in April 2013. They were negative for Chytrid and RV. Positive for hooks (treated and clear). Approximately 3 month total QT.
retest-2013-11-lorenzos.png

Also added some sips from the vendor this fall, and their retest was negative as well:
retest-2013-11-sips.png

The gray boxes are my overlays blotting out my contact and account information. All animals continue to eat well and appear healthy. I'll likely retest in 6 months or so...seems like a good collection screening cadence.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby frogface » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:27 pm

I'm very happy about your lab results!

This whole thing is doing my head in. My frogs went straight into the back room, still in the box. They were unpacked into a brand new tub. All supplies brand new for these frogs and used only by them; supplements, dusting cup, flies, mister, paper towels. Inside the tub is only paper towels. No plants or any previously used items. The lid was made fruit fly proof with brand new weather stripping. I put on gloves before entering their room.

I just don't get it. :(

eta: These are the only new frogs to come into my house in the past year and my heater was broken over the winter, making my inside temps very low.
Do you know where your frogs have been?

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:48 pm

Yeah it will be interesting to see the vendors results. My observations were like yours - outwardly healthy appearing frogs, eating well, growing, being frogs. So it doesn't make sense. I'm hoping more data points help us narrow in on a more specific timeline.

Please don't take this as a challenge to your QT protocols. I'm just putting my results out there hoping open sharing of results, good or bad, becomes the norm.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby frogfreak » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:32 am

Hey Jim,

Are you planning on doing a second test?
Glenn

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:58 am

Hey Glenn. This was the second set of PCR tests on these groups. So far I've run six sets of PCR tests on 4 groups of frogs from the same breeder and all were negative. I did change up my swabbing method this time. I've used RAL for all my tests so far. I am thinking about trying another lab in the future just to change test methods.

It raises a good question about monitoring a collection though. Believe it or not I'm done adding to my collection (heh) so now I have to figure out how often to randomly sample. I was thinking two or three vivs every six months. I have 5 vivs, so that would cover everyone once a year. Seemed reasonable to me but it would be great to hear other opinions. I'm still new and just sharing my experiences and results - not claiming to be an expert - far far from it.

Any recommendations on regular collection monitoring?
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby frogfreak » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:18 am

No expert here either!! lol

Myself, I don't hold a lot of faith in testing for Rana anymore. Only for Bd.
Glenn

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:33 am

Yeah I read one paper with some really high RV FP and FN rates which makes me skeptical too. RAL runs both off the same swab, so it's not more work for me, just more money...is still like to see published studies from the labs on the stats around their tests.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby frogface » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:50 am

What do you guys know about Bd testing? Would another type of fungus trigger a false positive? I wouldn't think so, considering that our vivs have all sorts of fungus, but, I have no idea.
Do you know where your frogs have been?

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:12 am

I have not looked at PCR stats on BD tests yet. I will poke around. The FPs on RV for the presence of other viruses was interesting. Did you see a link to a paper on that?
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby frogface » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:17 am

I just started reading this one: http://ccadc.us/docs/BdTesting.pdf
Do you know where your frogs have been?

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:46 pm

This was the RV paper I mentioned:
Reliability of non-lethal surveillance methods for detecting ranavirus infection

Using PCR results from liver samples for comparison, we defined false-positive test results as occurrences when a non-lethal technique indicated positive but the liver sample was negative. Similarly, we defined false-negative test results as occurrences when a non-lethal technique was negative but the liver sample was positive. Using these decision rules, we estimated false-negative and false-positive rates for tail clips and swabs. Our study was conducted in a controlled facility using American bullfrog Lithobates catesbeianus tadpoles; false-positive and false- negative rates were estimated after different periods of time following exposure to ranavirus. False-negative and false-positive rates were 20 and 6%, respectively, for tail samples, and 22 and 12%, respectively, for swabs. False-negative rates were constant over time, but false-positive rates decreased with post-exposure duration. Our results suggest that non-lethal sampling techniques can be useful for ranavirus surveillance, although the prevalence of infection may be underesti- mated when compared to results obtained with liver samples.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby RichFrye » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:50 pm

^broken link
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:55 pm

My bad. I fixed it in the original post. Here's the link:
http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/Publication ... al2012.pdf
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby Disquiet » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:57 pm

Having been on the receiving end of somewhat ambiguous bloodtest results related to endocrinology in humans, I can fully appreciate the necessity of a "grain of salt," while still understanding the importance of testing regardless of "cut and dried" answers. Thanks for posting, this was an informative read and I certainly plan to invest in this when the time comes.
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Re: Fecal, Rana and Chytrid test results

Postby joneill809 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:46 am

Here's a better link to the San Diego Zoo site with sampling protocols for BD/RV and a lab you can submit swabs to. I may give these guys a go on my next set of tests to see how their results compare to RAL. Anyone else using them?
http://www.sandiegozooglobal.org/News/A ... aboratory/

Direct links to their documents:
http://www.sandiegozooglobal.org/images ... m_2011.PDF
http://www.sandiegozooglobal.org/images ... s_2013.pdf
http://www.sandiegozooglobal.org/images ... elines.pdf
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/


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