Froglets dying. Why ?

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
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Djpaulys
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Froglets dying. Why ?

Postby Djpaulys » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:39 pm

So I have had about 12 or so tads climb out of water so I placed them into grow out tanks that are seeded with springtails.
I have lost 4 frogs now and don't know why.

Any ideas what may be wrong?

Any questions welcome.

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Philsuma
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:41 pm

2. What are your Temperatures -Day and Night - Highs and lows ? Are you lights too hot ?

3. What is the Humidity like ? - Percentage or guesstimate. What type of Water are you using ? Describe your tank/enclosure and it's lid or top.

4. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it ? What superfine powdered supplements are you using and are they fresh ?

5. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently ? Tankmates / other frogs ?

6. Any type of behaviour you would consider 'odd' ?

7. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ?

8. Can you take pictures of EVERYTHING ? The frogs, the enclosure ? Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help.

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Rusty_Shackleford
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:52 pm

Are you feeding ff's or just letting them eat springtails?
Jon - Ft. Myers, FL
Help stop the spread of Chytrid! Disinfect your waste water before disposing of it and double bag all solid wastes please!!

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Djpaulys
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Djpaulys » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:11 pm

Both

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Djpaulys
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Djpaulys » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:11 pm

Feeding both

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Philsuma
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:12 pm

any chance you can get to a computer instead of your phone to answer my questions ?

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Djpaulys
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Djpaulys » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:25 pm

Sorry computer is down right now but here are some pictures I just took
Temps are room temp 72 to 76 during the day
No more than two per setup
Dusting with these two one every other day
Feeding flies every other day
Have not touched them
Us bottled spring water onlyImageImageImageImage

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Philsuma
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:34 pm

ok...much better, thanks.

real quick stuff:

1. Stop feeding springtails and only feed dusted small melanogaster FF

2. Buy a fresh ziplock foil bag of RAPASHY superfine powered vitamin with calcium and discontinue those others for now

3. Dust your FF....EVERY feeding


I'm not a fan of those 'snap on' lid / tubs. Not saying they are 'the devil' but I had some froglets die and pretty much the only ones that did were in those. I like larger sterlite tubs.

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Djpaulys
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Djpaulys » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:40 pm

Is it ok to keep more than two in the container
Could there be two many springtails

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Philsuma
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:46 pm

2 is ok for that size, sure

Small froglets need a LOT of help when they are growing. For Tincs and 'Tinc type' froglets, I like to get them onto dusted small melanogaster FF RIGHT AWAY.

You want to get them onto some quality vitamins and calcium - dusted FF with some good regularity.

They could be eating the springtails and not enough of the dusted FF

They could be stressed by the amount of springtails in their small containers

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby zachk » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:26 pm

Are the containers in direct sunlight at all? Any cleaning products or similar things used near the froglets?

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:29 pm

yeah...there's condensation on the sides on those tubs that looks like it's from high temperatures.

Possibly.

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby BcsTx » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:27 pm

IMO there is nothing wrong with the supplements as long as they are less than 6 mos old and kept in a fridge. I like the repashy supplements but plenty of froggers use the herptivite combo supplements with no problems, used them for years personally until repashy vit a plus. Deaths could be due to heat build up, my grow out containers are ambient light. My oow tincs are housed in 190 oz containers with pothos and leaf litter, more than one leaf of leaf litter for 3-4 weeks and then moved into a 10gallon grow out. Phil we can agree to disagree here, newly morphed froglets need springs, I will put a big chunk of charcoal with some springs on it for them to eat at will. I do not feed anything to oow froglets for a few days or so. Have not had any deaths due to 190's containers. We all have different ways to raise froglets, the above has worked for me.
-Beth

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:37 pm

How do you know there is nothing wrong with the supps? there could be....there was a whole' shipment' of 'bad Dendrocare that one year when it was later discovered that the pallets sat out on a 100F summer airport tarmac and the supps suffered. Frog deaths were even attributed to those bad supps. So unless someone conducts some tests...no way to tell if a substance is 'bad' or not.

An EASY...REASONABLE....AFFORDABLE...first step to 'fixing' frogs that appear to possibly have problems with nutrition ect is to change up the dusting routine and/or buy NEW supps. You can use Dendrocare, Rapashy, Herptivite, Superprine or any other supp, in fact the MORE and different - the better. There are multiple posts on Rotation of supps and I swear by it.

In fact, if a potential seller tells me that they do not get their froglets on regularly dusted FF ASAP...I am not buying from that person. Just how I do, and how strongly I feel about frequent dusting.

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:00 am

Yet one other side to the mix and mix and shift for no conceivable reason fi d another brand yet again is the using absolutely nothing but the pink and blue labeled and having perfect health for over a decade.
I really think people fret way too mich at times over pills. Popping pills instead of concentrating vastly on the critters being coverwd with dust, and just as important , the critters not being dusted.

What was the quarantine proceeedure done on the parents?
Exactly what kind of sphagnum and where did you purchase it?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Roadrunner » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 am

Are there any air holes in those containers?

Is it just me or does the last pic look like the froglet has spindly leg?
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:22 am

Good call Aaron. Those containers look like they have tight snap fitting lids coupled with the look of that condensation on the sides - looks to me like high temps + lack of ventilation.

I feed all my froglets dusted melanogaster FF every day. Small amounts but every day.I would never rely on just springtails for days and days or even a week, that would be a disaster IMO.

I feel that advances in nutrition and supplementation is perhaps, that biggest reason for U.S hobbyist husbandry success recently in the 2000's. It's huge IMO.

A rotation has obvious (to me anyway) reasons to work well. If someone told me that my diet for 1 straight year would be nothing other than, say, Grilled Chicken Salad and not a single other food. They also provide three little bags of different brand 'nutritional' powder that I could sprinkle on the food - all three containing some professionally researched different form of vitamins and calcium in three different formulas. I could use none, 1, 2 or all 3.....I dunno about you but I'm using all three.

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:36 am

Philsuma wrote:
...If someone told me that my diet for 1 straight year would be nothing other than, say, Grilled Chicken Salad and not a single other food...


Aaah, but you see, we have many more options besides chicken for our frogs. The better the base, the less need for pills.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Philsuma
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Re: Froglets dying

Postby Philsuma » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:46 am

True, true...but some people are not as...option driven. They will cut corners and only stop at in-and-out burger on their way home for your food. They will not go out of their way to drive across town to hit the Whole Foods mart.

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Re: Froglets dying

Postby BcsTx » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:44 am

Phil it takes a couple days for oow frogs to absorb their tails, so I wait a few days before I feed them ffy's.
I agree with Aaron on the small holes in the lids.
-Beth


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