White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Have a sick Dart Frog? Preventative, Treatments, Methods and Medicines.
Anapsid
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White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Wed May 14, 2014 6:09 pm

I just purchased 2 D. tinctorius azureus from a breeder last week. Today I noticed one of them was slow to leave a wet area in my vivarium, was not quick to feed, and even allowed the other one to crawl all over it. Lastly to my horror there is a white spot on its back that was NOT there yesterday. I watch them a lot so this is a sudden change for me and I am more then worried....I am attaching 2 pictures. I know that the frog is on the thin side, its how they arrived, with the other one putting on a fair amount of weight in the last week.
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Philsuma
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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 14, 2014 6:41 pm

Please post who sold you those frogs.

There is only the single pic attached to your thread. The Azureus pictured is one of the most unhealthy animals I have ever seen. In addition to being VERY thin, it appears to have SLS or 'matchstick' arms and even legs. This is the product of poor nutrition of the parents, although I'm sure that froglet did not have access to proper superfine dusted supplements - vitamins and calcium not to mention food items in general.

VERY disappointing to see a pic like this.

Separate both frogs. Feed small melanogaster wingless fruit flies supplemented / dusted with calcium every day and vitamins every other.

Wow...just wow.

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Wed May 14, 2014 7:01 pm

I would but I am not sure of their name, I picked them up from an expo. I have been feeding them wingless melongaster's dusted once a day and without suppliments once a day...for a total of 2 feedings. The breeders told me they were thin only because of the stress of going on the road for the expo. I can't attach the image because the site says the file is too large (not sure why...). I am attaching an image of the second frog, who has put on weight, now I'm worried about him looking sick too...is the one I showed contagious? I have separated them just today when I saw the white dot and it didn't respond to the feedings...which was very off for both frogs. He has also been soaking a lot (I say he because I'm not sure of the gender)



Philsuma wrote:Please post who sold you those frogs.

There is only the single pic attached to your thread. The Azureus pictured is one of the most unhealthy animals I have ever seen. In addition to being VERY thin, it appears to have SLS or 'matchstick' arms and even legs. This is the product of poor nutrition of the parents, although I'm sure that froglet did not have access to proper superfine dusted supplements - vitamins and calcium not to mention food items in general.

VERY disappointing to see a pic like this.

Separate both frogs. Feed small melanogaster wingless fruit flies supplemented / dusted with calcium every day and vitamins every other.

Wow...just wow.
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Philsuma
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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 14, 2014 7:21 pm

I have never seen a 'white spot' like that - it could be part of the skeletal structure, seeing on how thin the frog is. The 'white spot' is on the rear end of the frog right ? Kinda hard to see from the pic.

The second frog seems healthy.

Try to avoid cross contamination - wash your hands between touching those enclosures, all the time.

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Wed May 14, 2014 7:23 pm

They were in the same vivarium until 3 hours ago. Should I be worried?

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 14, 2014 7:31 pm

'What's done is done'

Unless you want to see a Vet and spend @ $250.00 - that's the only 'quick thing' you can do. The members of a Forum such as this can only give you some general advice like I did - seperate, avoid cross contamination, use good supplements. It's not only really really hard for us to give you all-encompassing advice, but it's ethically dangerous because we are not Vets and we don't want to be responsible for saying something that could cause more harm than good.

You can read the 'Fecal submission' threads here and submit a sample from both frogs in the next several days to a week to Dr. Frye for a diagnosis.

Don't be discouraged though. Do your best for care and continue to ask questions here - anything you can think of, just know that we are somewhat limited in what we can offer in terms of anything 'medical' ect.

Best of luck.

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 14, 2014 7:33 pm

Here's a list of medications ect - you can see the disclaimer on top of the post and the fact that there is a ....lot....of info, to think about.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4289

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Wed May 14, 2014 7:36 pm

Here is a link to more images of my frogs...I think this is a way for you to see all images.

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 14, 2014 7:40 pm

The images here are ok for the purposes of seeing what you are talking about.

so judging from the backspotting, those are adult Azureus - at least 6 months old? Did the seller at least tell you how old they were?

Was it THAT thin when you got it, or did it go 'rapidly downhill' ?

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Re: Spots on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Wed May 14, 2014 7:49 pm

It was about that thin when I got it (both of them really for that matter). They both had quite the appetite and understood when I touched the lid, to get ready to eat. The thin one started to look like he was putting some weight on. Today however was the sudden turn for the worse. I have 20 years of turtle experience, so I'm not exactly new to herps in general but this is my first time dealing with amphibians, so I have to admit this is more then a little embarrassing on one side (I purchased sick frogs without realizing it, I'd never make the same mistake with a reptile) and angering (the frogs were in this condition to begin with).

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Philsuma » Wed May 14, 2014 7:56 pm

You'll need fecals. I'd guess either a heavy load of hookworms or the big 'C' Coccidia - if I had to guess.

In the meantime, make sure that thin one is not stressed any more than possible. Provide a separate enclosure with lots of live Pothos leaves cut with scissors/ no root or dirt. High humidity.

Feed small amounts but everyday. Always dusted. if untreated flies are becoming bothersome, place a slice of banana inside the tank.

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Wed May 14, 2014 8:05 pm

I will give that a try, and going to shift funds to afford a trip to the vet. Thanks for the help

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby joneill809 » Thu May 15, 2014 8:42 pm

Any update on your situation?

I'm pulling for you and the little guy. I am sorry that this was your introduction to the hobby. It's sad to see a picture like that, and maddening to think you were taken advantage of like that. Though we talk about buyer beware, there's also an ethical side to keeping live animals, and man does this look like a big step over that ethical line.

I'd ad a location to your profile and get to know some local froggers. They can lend a hand in times like this, like finding a good local vet. If you have not located a local vet with herp experience, I would call Dr Frye and consider overnighting fecals and ask about emailing images.
http://www.milanareaanimalhospital.com
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Fri May 16, 2014 10:21 pm

Unfortunately the little guy died this morning...just before my vet appointment. The vet was concerned the white spot could have been fungal, so we are sending skin samples off to a lab. The other frog was also checked out, which she feels he looks healthy. We have him in a quarantine tank for now...to see if I have to scrap the entire vivarium and start anew.

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby BcsTx » Fri May 16, 2014 10:35 pm

Have you contacted the seller for a refund? It should be for both frogs, . Typically if one has it when housed together both do. My advice is to get a refund before paying for a Vet to save the other frog, after the vet price could probably start over with new frogs for less money. If the seller will not work with you for a refund there is vendor feedback. The frog looked really bad hard to pull them through when so thin plus a infection to boot.
Either way the viv they were in needs to be torn down and sterilized with a bleach solution.
Sorry for your loss. In the future please QT and test before putting them in a new viv.
-Beth

Anapsid
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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Fri May 16, 2014 10:48 pm

I bought them together in a vivarium. There was no QT option.

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Fri May 16, 2014 10:48 pm

I also found the breeder's facebook page, I called them...let's see if they respond to my call...

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby joneill809 » Fri May 16, 2014 10:58 pm

Thanks for the update. Sorry for your loss. It's good to hear you found a local vet. No one should get taken advantage of like this and get put through the ordeal of having an animal die on them.

You might want to consider setting up a QT box for your remaining frog and rebuilding the viv you purchased like Beth outlined. Something to consider when you talk to your vet.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby Anapsid » Fri May 16, 2014 11:06 pm

I did ask the vet about all that. I have years of reptile experience, with this being my first jump into amphibians...so QT isn't a foreign concept to me. The mistake I made was trusting this breeder, since I had purchased snakes from him in the past and they have been in great thriving health. The frogs were purchased as a set with a already established vivarium. It made the offer very attractive I have to admit. I had been reading up on frogs for a while now and wanted to give it a shot at some point. So currently I have a small 5 gal set up with some moss that I've wetted down, and I've covered about 40% of the tank to give it a "hide" feel. I did call the vendor but I have also sent the body off for some tests to see what it was exactly. Hopefully the vendor is cooperative in some manner...now beth said there was a vendor feed back..is it on this site? I mean he does have a facebook, I could post it here if things go south...

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Re: White Spot on D. tinctorius azureus

Postby RichFrye » Fri May 16, 2014 11:12 pm

That tinc could in no way go down that fast in a week's time.
The vendor either knows nothing about darts or does not care.
Sorry for the mistakes.
My suggestion for future purchases would be to get to know your breeder, or flipper.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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