Female Tinc on Male aggression

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toostrange
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Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby toostrange » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:20 pm

My female Yellow Sip is a beast! Seems to be some serious bullying going on. In last week or so noticed my male was getting skinny. Eats regular dusted flies,termites,flour beetles/larva. But not puttin on weight,female on the other hand is. Watching them little more closely I noticed female jumpin on him standing on his head. He tried to get away but she followed him continuing the behavior. I have moved him to temp enclosure to try and fatten him up. Did search on this but couldn't find any relevant info. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there any hope for this pair?

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Philsuma
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Re: Female on Male aggression

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:47 pm

Just like people, sometimes frogs never seem to get along. There have been reports of 'psycho killer' female tincs that are way too aggressive with multiple different males.

My advice to you, is separate them immediately or risk losing the male. You would be surprised how quick stress can kill an adult frog if left unchecked.

Once you have things stabilized you can take your time to post pics of your enclosure and maybe we can help you with designs - visual barriers ect.

toostrange
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby toostrange » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:58 pm

They are seperated at this time. Tryin to fatten him up. I have plenty of visual barriers. Only the two of them in 75gal viv.

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby frogfreak » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:49 am

Can you post a pic of the male?
Glenn

toostrange
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby toostrange » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:58 am

Try to get one up once I get home today.

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Frogman955
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby Frogman955 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:29 pm

Time to reactivate this thread me thinks.
I bought a trio of Azureus as froglets about 4 years ago and they have always been together, 2 males and a female.
They were always fine together and I never saw any fighting apart from the odd squabble between the males.
A few months ago I noticed one of the males sitting in a brom axil but thought nothing of it as it wasn`t unusual.
With me being at work during the day and coming in to find him sitting in the brom I never had reason to think anything was going on.
Anyway after a time I began to notice that he wasn`t coming out to feed which was very unusual for this trio so I started to take a lot more notice of what was going on.
Dropping flies on his nose didn`t seem to make any difference and then when he started sitting in the water a lot the alarm bells started ringing.
And then I saw what was happening.
The female was all over him and hounding him, sitting on him, and just being a proper bitch to him.
I decided to remove him and put him in an empty viv to let him chill out, but the damage was done.
He died a few days later.
Totally unexpected behaviour from what was always a peaceful trio.
To date I`ve not seen any of this behaviour towards the remaining male, and if anything they have started laying more eggs than they have ever done.
Maybe we`re so set in our ways with thinking that a trio is fine that we can`t see what is actually going on between them.



Mike

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Hayden
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby Hayden » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:06 pm

I've seen this type of behavior with a 1.1 pair of Azureus. I had a female Azureus that I paired up with a young male and she bullied him to death, literally. Like you noted, by the time I realized what was going on, it was too late to save him. Very odd behavior.

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby frogfreak » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:37 pm

I'm starting to wonder if female tincs go after males that aren't "mate worthy" :?
Glenn

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby Hayden » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:43 pm

^You know that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby Philsuma » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:48 pm

frogfreak wrote:I'm starting to wonder if female tincs go after males that aren't "mate worthy" :?


Interesting idea Glenn. I'd think the 'bad' theory would def hold true with two or more males. You would think the primal urge to breed with only one male and one female would over ride a possible unnacceptability though. Does that make sense?

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby toostrange » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:54 pm

Could it be maybe be that female is ready to mate and the male is not?

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby Philsuma » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:59 pm

toostrange wrote:Could it be maybe be that female is ready to mate and the male is not?

Good point too. How old were they and how big, and in comparison.

toostrange
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby toostrange » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:23 pm

Full adults. Are WC through SNDF. The female is quite a bit larger than male. By looks they seem to be close in age, but that's only my guess. Healthy beautiful frogs. Other than these incidents as of late they got along great. In retrospect think I should have pulled female instead of male. Think it would have made whole process of fattening him up that much shorter.

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby frogfreak » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:13 pm

Philsuma wrote:
frogfreak wrote:I'm starting to wonder if female tincs go after males that aren't "mate worthy" :?


Interesting idea Glenn. I'd think the 'bad' theory would def hold true with two or more males. You would think the primal urge to breed with only one male and one female would over ride a possible unnacceptability though. Does that make sense?


Not sure, Phil. I've read about this aggression more and more lately, but have never experienced it. I've seen female aggression when cycling them down or up, but never "just because" In my case, it's all related to food availability (Resources)

Hayden commented about the females being ready to breed and the males not ready. That's a possibility too. Again, I usually see the reverse as the females take longer to mature.
Glenn

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby frogfreak » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:16 pm

toostrange wrote:Full adults. Are WC through SNDF. The female is quite a bit larger than male. By looks they seem to be close in age, but that's only my guess. Healthy beautiful frogs. Other than these incidents as of late they got along great. In retrospect think I should have pulled female instead of male. Think it would have made whole process of fattening him up that much shorter.


It could be as simple as her being stressed/pissed being WC and confined to a viv.
Glenn

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby toostrange » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:17 pm

Could be

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Brian317
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby Brian317 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:54 pm

I've only personally seen this once. I have a 1.2 group of f/s leucomela and the females on occasion when the male calls wrestle a bit (both keep great weight and breed), but at times the dominant female after wrestling the other female, will then go up to the calling male and try to wrestle him. Maybe she gets confused in the heat of the moment...who knows. Doesn't last long and they usually end up laying eggs shortly after. Quite odd.

Anywho, it is something to certainly keep an eye on as like many have said, can lead to death of the bullied frog via stress. Separation is typically the best route, but at the least, increased awareness and continue to monitor them for weight loss or abnormal behavior.
-Brian
Fine Spot Leucs, Bakhuis, Variabilis, Varadero, Fantastica, Green Sirensis

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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby frogfreak » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:09 pm

Brian317 wrote:I've only personally seen this once. I have a 1.2 group of f/s leucomela and the females on occasion when the male calls wrestle a bit (both keep great weight and breed), but at times the dominant female after wrestling the other female, will then go up to the calling male and try to wrestle him. Maybe she gets confused in the heat of the moment...who knows. Doesn't last long and they usually end up laying eggs shortly after. Quite odd.


I'm glad you posted, Brian. My Leucs are by far the most aggressive group I have going. They wrestle every single morning when the males call, during breeding season. I have one female that goes nuts daily and attacks anything that moves! The males stop calling and it's all over. They go about their business...

It's a good thing they're "communal" or I'd have a real mess on my hands lol
Glenn

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ZenMonkey
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Re: Female Tinc on Male aggression

Postby ZenMonkey » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:09 am

My two female auratus get progressively more pissy with each other based on how much one or both of them need to lay. I'm always watching to see if I should remove one, but all three are thriving and breeding like mad, so I've kept them together for now.

They can also overwhelm the male with their affection sometimes. I've been a little concerned about that. However, the other day I saw for the first time my teeny little male putting the big alpha in her place, with her head low to the ground, without either being violent at all and with no repercussions I could see. Respect!
A girl named Joey.


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