Most productive food for springtails

Culturing Fruit Flies, other Insects. Supplements and Dusting.
Stu&Shaz
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Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:59 am

Just curious,really what are your most productive foods for springtails,i recently got wind a a special top secret receipe,which i have no chance unfortunately of finding out what it contains,i'm not really keen to buy it but the results from it are astounding from the pics I've seen (secrets are held my our european cousins :roll:) ,so we are thinking about trying to up our game.We are getting ok results and no shortages but me being me i WANT better :lol: !!! What ya got folks.
As a side note we have tried a variety of grub from readybreak to veg to fish flake (used in limited quantities because of the tocopherol issues) mushrooms bakers yeast maybe there is a mix that will give me what I'm after
thanks in advance
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:06 am

Good topic Stu !

Some of the foods, I've fed...I think they were all fairly equal (I guess that doesn't help, huh) but I'll list em all anyway.

Bakers Yeast - No mites from this
Dry Baby Cereal flakes - this was one of my fav
Fresh Mushrooms
Dried and powdered Mushrooms
Cucumber slices - attracted those thin white worms
Flake fish food

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boombotty
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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby boombotty » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:08 am

I've tried lots of foods, but the one I found to be best (for me) is a mix of brewers yeast and dried mushrooms. I run the dried mushrooms though my food processor until they are powder and mix with the yeast 1:1.
Scott Bryant

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby cbreon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:14 am

Stu, I primarily use omega super flake and yeast. The flake gives me awesome production but it does contain tocopherol. Can you please elaborate on known tocopherol problems with frogs?

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby cbreon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 am

I just read this, it looks like tocopherol is good, but Stu please elaborate on any issues you are hearing, thanks!

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content ... 8.abstract

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby frogfreak » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:49 am

Glenn

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:55 pm

Philsuma wrote:Good topic Stu !

Some of the foods, I've fed...I think they were all fairly equal (I guess that doesn't help, huh) but I'll list em all anyway.

Bakers Yeast - No mites from this
Dry Baby Cereal flakes - this was one of my fav
Fresh Mushrooms
Dried and powdered Mushrooms
Cucumber slices - attracted those thin white worms
Flake fish food

Cheers Phil it is a very important topic i feel,especially once one has froglets, doing really well with these is hugely important to me at the moment,so it will be for other folks too
thanks mate
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:58 pm

boombotty wrote:I've tried lots of foods, but the one I found to be best (for me) is a mix of brewers yeast and dried mushrooms. I run the dried mushrooms though my food processor until they are powder and mix with the yeast 1:1.

Hey Scott,buddy could you tell me is your cultures are vented and whether you have had any issues with CO2 build up?
thanks muchly :D
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby boombotty » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:18 pm

I keep mine in 3 liter tupperware, not vented. I'll open every few days to take some out and to feed and have never had an issue with CO2 buildup. I have also heard that springtails will produce a chemical to limit their population after awhile, but I have had one of these cultures going for over 3 years now and it is constantly booming.
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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:19 pm

cbreon wrote:Stu, I primarily use omega super flake and yeast. The flake gives me awesome production but it does contain tocopherol. Can you please elaborate on known tocopherol problems with frogs?

Hey Craig, the problem is the bugs assimilate levels of tocopherols way higher than they should this can block the uptake of vit A and d3 so with out D3 in da frog you can chuck all the Ca at them in the world but they can't uptake it, damn i hope i have that right
thankyou for you help mate
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:29 pm

frogfreak wrote:I use nutritional yeast, Stu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

Hey buddy ya good?
again i'll ask the same question Glen if i may as i asked Scott vented or unvented cultures,to both i have had possible issues with CO2 build up in a rocking culture,this is the reason why I'm dwelling on this,especially as you both are more experianced than I
thanks all of you for so much so QUICK!!!
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:36 pm

boombotty wrote:I keep mine in 3 liter tupperware, not vented. I'll open every few days to take some out and to feed and have never had an issue with CO2 buildup. I have also heard that springtails will produce a chemical to limit their population after awhile, but I have had one of these cultures going for over 3 years now and it is constantly booming.

I'm going to go off topic slightly Scott can you tell me what your using as your culture media please,again I'll stress the gratitude factor :D
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby boombotty » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:48 pm

Natural lump charcoal with about an inch of water. Over here, you can find it at any grocery store or Walmart, so I'm guessing it shouldn't be a problem to find it there. Using charcoal also makes it very easy to harvest the springtails, just take out a piece and blow on it.
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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby cbreon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:50 pm

Stu&Shaz wrote:
cbreon wrote:Stu, I primarily use omega super flake and yeast. The flake gives me awesome production but it does contain tocopherol. Can you please elaborate on known tocopherol problems with frogs?

Hey Craig, the problem is the bugs assimilate levels of tocopherols way higher than they should this can block the uptake of vit A and d3 so with out D3 in da frog you can chuck all the Ca at them in the world but they can't uptake it, damn i hope i have that right
thankyou for you help mate
Stu


Stu, as I mentioned in my pm but for now for discussion sake, the idea that frog's tocopherol intake from sprintails fed exclusively foods containing tocopherol (especially fish flake) was suggested by Ed but I don't beleive it has been backed up by any studies. Infact, I found a study conducted at Wesleyan (Middletown, CT) that suggested that it might help frogs.

Now all that being said, high levels of tocopherol intake could block vit a and d3 synthesis but the question is do springtails fed an exclusively fish flake diet intake enough tocopherol to prevent synthesis or is it in a range that would be beneficial to the frogs. I guess like most things fish flake is better in moderation until more is known.

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby frogfreak » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:38 pm

Stu&Shaz wrote:
frogfreak wrote:I use nutritional yeast, Stu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

Hey buddy ya good?
again i'll ask the same question Glen if i may as i asked Scott vented or unvented cultures,to both i have had possible issues with CO2 build up in a rocking culture,this is the reason why I'm dwelling on this,especially as you both are more experianced than I
thanks all of you for so much so QUICK!!!
Stu


I grow my springs in 32oz unvented cups. Some are on coco coir chunks and some on leca/hydroton with about an inch of water in the bottom. They are opened weekly for feeding. I guess twice a week because I usually feed them out weekly too. I use the fill with water and pour method for feeding.

Here's a pic for ya, Stu.

Image
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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:46 pm

In terms of nutritional content, remember, we are not using springtails as a staple. Dusted fruit flies allow for optimal transfer of vitamins and other supplements. There HAVE been people who have posted that they dust their springtails but again, I have to think that, that is not as effective as dusted fruit flies for many reasons.

I personally view springtails as a food source that assist smaller size metamorphs in a quick (hopefuly) transition to getting onto dusted FF, as well as viv janitors and then finally serving as a "little debbie" type snack for everyone.

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby RichFrye » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:25 pm

Actually , springs have more nutritional value than snack foods. They can be high in calcium and some other nutrients I can't rattle off , off the top of my head. They are crucial for successful obligate husbandry.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Philsuma » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:33 pm

I think that's why the clay use in enclosure design is becoming so important - transfer of calcium to springtails in the viv.

...trying to make a joke @ the little debbies.

Rich, you agree that while springs are essential to start the obligate froglets on, dusted small FF need to be utilized as quickly as possible ?

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:34 pm

cbreon wrote:
Stu&Shaz wrote:
cbreon wrote:Stu, I primarily use omega super flake and yeast. The flake gives me awesome production but it does contain tocopherol. Can you please elaborate on known tocopherol problems with frogs?

Hey Craig, the problem is the bugs assimilate levels of tocopherols way higher than they should this can block the uptake of vit A and d3 so with out D3 in da frog you can chuck all the Ca at them in the world but they can't uptake it, damn i hope i have that right
thankyou for you help mate
Stu


Stu, as I mentioned in my pm but for now for discussion sake, the idea that frog's tocopherol intake from sprintails fed exclusively foods containing tocopherol (especially fish flake) was suggested by Ed but I don't beleive it has been backed up by any studies. Infact, I found a study conducted at Wesleyan (Middletown, CT) that suggested that it might help frogs.

Now all that being said, high levels of tocopherol intake could block vit a and d3 synthesis but the question is do springtails fed an exclusively fish flake diet intake enough tocopherol to prevent synthesis or is it in a range that would be beneficial to the frogs. I guess like most things fish flake is better in moderation until more is known.

Agreed Craig, everything in moderation,i think its important that folks know i have not been keeping darts even a year,i think that this is particularly important with what i have mentioned above.The Pm was out of courtisy really as i wanted this debate to stay here and wanted my source known to you as i felt it important so you could delve deeper into what i had been advised.Its just good that we all are aware of potential problems and can then address them as each of us see fit.The fact that springs are important at a time in a frogs life when they are so delicate has made me personally warey of feeding too much fish flake to my springtail and iso cultures for that matter,but i still use it,as you say in moderation.It seems like yourself i have no issues producing a healthy little froglet,although granted what I'm dealing with as a novice are said to be easier than pumillio.What is so cool Craig is that a novice is able to have these debates with guys that have been doing this a while and everyone learns just abit more,which makes us all just that bit better at being custodians of these wonderful frogs
for that i thankyou
Stu

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Re: Most productive food for springtails

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:48 pm

RichFrye wrote:Actually , springs have more nutritional value than snack foods. They can be high in calcium and some other nutrients I can't rattle off , off the top of my head. They are crucial for successful obligate husbandry.

Phil I'm not ignoring you i'll just end up saying the same thing or asking the same question repeatedly
So to all..... surely with springtails being the go too food for most young darts in those crucial days after metamorphosis they are of massive importance,and if the dusting is so important then a two fold question why do we not hand feed dusted flies occassionally to tads and why not dust the springs.Now I'm sure some will be laughing at me for suggesting the first ,becasue the water will wash the dust off,but no it doesn't the meniscus trapped around a fly makes this feasable (ok not for obligates Rich)and yes its silly of time,but it IS doable,hmm maybe i'm the only one mad enough to go there :lol:
Stu


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