Heating the Viv - Good Dart Frog Temps ?

Vivarium Plan design, "Build Journals", DIY, Viv Maintenance Issues.
droned

Heating the Viv - Good Dart Frog Temps ?

Postby droned » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:14 pm

I have read numerous opinions on the subject of heating the Viv. I would like to localize the information for future people.

It seems that most people do have a heater in their Viv. Although there is some that think it is not needed. I am considering using Hydrokable under my false bottom. I however do not want to do this if I never have the need to turn it on, since it is kinda expensive. I am interested in hearing opinions about heating.

DartFrog

Postby DartFrog » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:24 pm

There was a recent tread on this. I use a aquarium heater in my viv under the water. It keeps the humidity up. I do get variation in my temp due to the lights off at night and the house cools down to the upper 60's. If you can not keep the temp up then it will be harder to keep the humidity up.

Mike

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:35 pm

The "average" ideal temps needed for most Darts would be mid seventies daytime internal viv high to mid sixties nighttime viv low.

With these numbers , and the lights used in today's vivs, there is no need for heating. When summer hits, I am sure there will be no need ( in fact, posts on cooling vivs should start being posted in a couple of months).
If your room temps fall within the low sixties to low seventies, you do not need heat.

Adding heat to raise humidity is thinking in reverse. You can boil water and get a lot of humidity. Not advised. Humidity can ( and should be) adjusted by vents.

I also must point out ( I think this has been mentioned, not sure) you want a swing in highs and lows ( ten degrees is good).
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

DartFrog

Postby DartFrog » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:09 pm

Rich,

I agree but my house usually does not get over 70 degrees in the day in the winter and my lights usually only get it up to about 72-73 during the day. Maybe this is enough but can you explain how putting a heater in is thinking in reverse? I put my water temp at about 78 degrees which allows me to keep the tank temp and humidity up. I guess it might be a problem in the summer but I guess we will have to wait and see.

Mike

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:27 pm

Mike,

First , 78F is on the high end of the range. If your daytime viv temp is 72-73 this is an ideal situation (without heat added).I would worry a bit with 78 degree water and lights.

With water temps constantly at 78F you constantly are a bit high on the range. If you are trying to control humidity, close up or change the area of your vent(s).

There is no need for a heater IF your room temps fall within low 60's nighttime to low 70's daytime.
Darts can handle temps lower than the above mentioned easier than temps higher than mentioned.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

DartFrog

Postby DartFrog » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:37 pm

Rich,

Ok, well I added my heaters to keep the humidity high, without them it sometimes would get low, especially at night. The temp does not get to 78 in the viv, that is only the water temp.

Mike

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:50 pm

Mike,

Here is my fear:

In any viv there should be micro-climates. Without getting too detailed about micro-climates, each viv will have gradients in humidity, temps and light. Frogs will burrow, hide, cower, or do other things if there are not chances to find "the " hang out area.

If you have a water feature that is kicking out 78 degree temps, the viv should be close to that temp ( especially with lights on), in some of its climates ( or most, depending on size). If you have a huge amount of open vent area to let the huge amount of heated water to escape, you have too much ventilation. If you close the vents a bit, and turn off the heater, you will get conditions closer to nature.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

DartFrog

Postby DartFrog » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:59 pm

Rich,

Ok I will have to consider that. My tank does have a good size vent on the back. I am thinking of putting up another 20g soon and will try this.

Mike

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:04 pm

Mike,
Yeh , it would kind of be like turning your apt./house heat up to 80 and then opening the front door for good.

Good luck with the new viv. I have a few I need to start , myself.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

droned

Postby droned » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:33 pm

Mike and Rich,
Thanks for the info. I guess I just assume that a tropical rainforest setting needs to be warm. With the highs only needing to be around 78 or so I can see why a heater is not needed. I think this will be good info for future viv builders.

Dan

mydumname

Postby mydumname » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:14 pm

With my new rack setup, I have noticed the temps are in the perfect range. I measured temp throughout the tanks. I did not have anything as high as 80 or below 70 during the day. The closer to the top the warmer, closer to the bottom cooler (if 70-72 is cool, ha). When I didn't have my tanks on the rack, I tried an undertank heater. It kept temps in the mid seventies during the day, and humidity shot up, based on the excess water on the sides. I didn't really like using the heat pad, and I doubt I will ever have to again. I used it to see if it would help any, when I had insufficient lighting. I would rather get the heat from the lights because then you are also benefiting the plants and your viewing pleasure.

Greg

fishinmagician

Postby fishinmagician » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:33 pm

I'm using a large under tank heater on my 55gal. and My temps are always 72-78f depending on the sun. It is in a small upstairs room that gets a lot of sun. I can;t say for sure how much its doing as far as air temp but I know the substrate feels barely cool to the touch and I have a spot where the substrate is dug out like a ditch all the way down to the false bottom so the heat allows the drainage to evaporate keeping the humidity up and the false bottom can breathe so it doesn't build up too fast. plus, when it does fill up i can suck out the overflow with a big syringe. So I guess I'm saying that I've head good luck so far with my under tank heater.

waretrop

Setup and Construction

Postby waretrop » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:36 pm

Hello everyone,
I have a 24X36 L shaped glass terrarium with glass peeked roof. It also has screened gables, with a fan in one end. It has been set up for 12 years and the plants are very well established. I kept them well trimmed back until now because I had no frogs in it but grew sundews and flytraps from seed in it.

It has about 3 inches of gravel filled with water and a cover of screen. Then soil on that. I also have 2 wells in the soil in case it ever gets too much water.

Today I added a water fall to the middle corner. The pump is in the water/gravel level in the middle corner. It doesn't matter where the water falls because it will just go through the soil and reach the water table naturally.

This whole thing sits in my greenhouse which I keep at a stable 70 degrees all winter. I have 2 thoughts bouncing around in my head.
If my furnace fails, I want the terrarium to have it's own heat source. I thought I 'd sink a few fish tank heaters, maybe 50 watt submersable, into the gravel water level. I don't think the gravel laying around it will hurt. My heater on my catfish tank is always laying on and in the gravel.They would be set very low and wouldn't run very often.

I have my african violet on their own back up heater for that reason. I also have a caller/alarm if the furnace or electric fails and a generator ready all the time. Nothing like being a worry wart. LOL

My other thought and question before I add lil dart frogs is how hot can they take it? I never looked but I'll bet it gets hot there in the summer although I have a exhaust fan in the terrarium and the greenhouse also shade cloths for both.

Any feedback for me? Barb

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:56 pm

Hey Barb,

I am very jealous of your greenhouse. Your terrarium sounds cool also.

This is one case for using heaters, as back-up heat.

Most Darts do not like it when temps go over 80. Some do better than others. I am sure there are tons of stories ( mine included) of Darts surviving temps much higher than that, but mid seventies is the goal.

Good luck with the project. Sounds fun.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:59 pm

Also, the larger the viv , the more micro climates possible. The more micro climates possible the more areas of cooler temps in which Darts can escape scorching temps ( temporarily , at least).

This touches on my concerns about "nano" vivs turning up.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

fishinmagician

Postby fishinmagician » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:13 pm

hello waretrop.

I'm new around here and fairly new to dart frogs. i've had a host of other frogs and critters. Everything i'm reading out there says that the majority of the common species like it around 75 with an occasional short spike being ok. I know it varies a little from specie to specie. It sounds like it prolly could get pretty warm in the greenhouse and terrarium in the summer. Then it would be more of a matter of keeping the habitat cool enough.

I personally haven;t used an aquarium heater to heat any of my other vivariums, but it is commonly used and recommended.

One thing for sure is that I would definitely set up what ever heater you plan on and monitor it for at least a coupla days before adding frogs. I had my newest vivarium setup for over a coupla months while I experimented with different plants and watched the temperature gradients.

Hope that helped a little.
Peace.

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:30 pm

"but it is commonly used and recommended"

Referring to heaters.

Hi All,

I am wondering, with quotes like the above, are those saying they have been advised to use heaters , been told so in reference to Darts, or a more general Amphibia.

The reason I ask is the fact that Darts like ( especially during breeding) to have 8 to 15 degree downswing in nighttime temps. A heater ( unless set at a "back-up heater" setting) is quite counterproductive to accomplishing this .

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

waretrop

Setup and Construction

Postby waretrop » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm

Oh Rich. You have me very concerned.

What are you talking about?

"This touches on my concerns about "nano" vivs turning up."

Barb

fishinmagician

Postby fishinmagician » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:36 pm

I was referring to the fact that I'v seen using a aquarium heater for humidity and heat recomended as a heat source for darts and other amphibs. I see the humidity point but I never got how it would really produce enough heat to keep mush of anything warm. I 'm in the " heat the room no the viv camp". I just use my under tank heater to heat the drainage and keep a nice gradient. even with the heater the temp drops to mid to upper 60s at night.

User avatar
RichFrye
Senior Member
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby RichFrye » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:38 pm

Sounds like it is set at a very low setting.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


Return to “Enclosures, Setup and Construction”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests