Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Your Full Tank Shot (FTS).....or not. Frog Room pics.
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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby joneill809 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:27 pm

Congratulations on the RFB's! Very exciting Stu. I'd say it's great to see you having such good luck with all your animals, but it's not luck, just great husbandry! How many depot sites are you offering the RFB's? I see at least 10 for the red heads (really like that setup).
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Stu&Shaz » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:31 pm

Thanks buddy that's a lovely thing to say, to someone that regards themselves as a stockman,and little more ,about as kind as it get's for me !!


They haven't used a can yet Jim,it's the same with the red heads actually,so broms have been the way forwards so far. Yes there are alot of cans ,I want them to have options initially . But the big picture is me being able to limit depo sites in the long run Jim. Jim i'd like a bit more control on the oophaga,ha I can't get this with broms. Jim when JT pulled out those 5 kids at christmas last to say I was shocked is an understatment,she then turned around and laid and set about rearing another lot immediately,the broms failed at the end and although i got one ootw i'm sure there were more,I just didn't know where.

But the big picture is really simple Jim,8 histrionica in one viv which could so easily have been heaven forbid 12, is somewhat mind numbing. The older kids I didn't want to move at the time the next brood came ootw,so one has the potential to end up with a stack of nearly adult sized frogs and a group of tiny things just starting out, which is far from ideal really. I've got away with it Jim the little one is now adult sized and this senario is also being repeated in the RFB viv(only far worse numbers wise) and I'm getting away with it there too repeatedly. That said, i'm not comfortable with the senario. Jim i've pulled both I know I can rear them jees I've got a handreared(artificially fed RH tad stage) red head potentially laying, but the in viv frogs seem to be doing that bit better certainly growing faster. So really I'm exploring (if I can get them to use cans) what extra control that might give me. Naturally broms always fail at just the wrong time,but the biggy is being able to limit. Mum is always forefront in my mind Jim which is another facet of this,I want to be able to stop her from doing 5 twice in a row if I can,frankly one is jaw dropping and cool I'll take the five(they are here it's done),but I'd almost be happier with 3. I don't want mum overdoing it!!!!

The red head set up might not work Jim,but i'm cool with that as the frogs will mature properly without breeding and I can always add a brom,but if it does I'll have my control. The 5 are elsewhere where they cannot breed but I want then in that viv as they'll get more exercise,but i'll keep them on the dry side for a while anyway and cans pretty much empty.

It'''s all slow burn long term stuff Jim,that's why these little rungs up the ladder have me so full of joy. I think this ponderously slow approach is where the luck comes from buddy,i'm not a guy blessed to be lucky, but hares don't always win races huh,like I'm racing,but I'm sure you understand what I am getting at.

Jim we are closing on our year 5 as dart keepers,I guess we have a few notches on the proverbial post now,but I still feel like I'm learning the same as the day we got our leucs..our first frogs... I think the can's are just part of my constant questing.

cheers kiddo you are always so kind to us.
take care

Stu

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Stu&Shaz » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:27 pm

I've not been about much just so busy so thought I'd share some eye candy these kids all bred here are just starting to breed. We didn't produce many redheads last year frankly wanted a good deal of downtime for my older lass,but hopefully we might get some luck this year,dart keeping can be a very long slow burn thing I suppose but here we are with 3 potential vivs of breeding redheads. I am of a mind to say how on earth did we get here after that statement and pinch myself,tis sheer disbelief. One of our otherslow burn projects the red frogbeach is also showing the value of patience,ahh man i'm now all but sure a stunning frog bred yonks back here is female,she is an absolute stunner red biggish spots things are good froggy wise.

Some pics of the red heads in a 3 month old viv with the most amazing moss or liverwort growth I have ever seen:

Image_70F1090 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Image_70F1082 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Image_70F1069 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Image_70F1057 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Image_70F1044 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Image_70F1034 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

take care all

Stu

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby joneill809 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:57 pm

Welcome back Stu! Really amazing photos and such beautiful animals.

Happy to hear you have three vivs going! It's great to see such an investment in multiple pair / groups. Such a wonderful way to support the hobby and provide a foundation for the future of some of these hard to find locales.

Seems like they like that nifty film can layout you came up with :)
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Philsuma » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:44 pm

Fantastic Stu!! Those are stunning Red-Heads. You are , by now, very knowledgeable in the care of that species. Could write a really good care sheet, I'd warrant.

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Stu&Shaz » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:57 pm

joneill809 wrote:Welcome back Stu! Really amazing photos and such beautiful animals.

Happy to hear you have three vivs going! It's great to see such an investment in multiple pair / groups. Such a wonderful way to support the hobby and provide a foundation for the future of some of these hard to find locales.

Seems like they like that nifty film can layout you came up with :)


Hiya Jim ahh bless ya mate,I'm not gone away from anywhere really buddy,just can't move for work, I'm way too old for this bro...ugg Barely even speak to my closet of friends ha but somehow manage to talk to a few amazing frogs,it's ok mate wish I had more time. jim at the mo I work with a silcone gun in my hand what seems like 24/7,there's a trick buddy,I do pop by and watch ya mate,so saw your comment.Jees Jim last time I did some work on a viv,i'd done the work before I'd worked out what the hell I was going to do :shock: LMAO and better quality than i've ever been able to achieve takes moments mate when one knows how. no messing no tape I need pics as well buddy. No one will understand me otherwise :oops: :D

Jim we are utterly on an accord with trying to do something more than just keep and breed a given morph/ species, i've always admired your sentiments aswell 8) Ahh man I worry bro :( it's so easy to loose frogs in captivity,there is so much wonder in the wild,we can't keep take take,we have to try and keep what we have now. New wonders ,the next best thing needs to be sustainable.But my god we have some amazingly cool frogs to care for now.

It starts with more vivs of one morph, in one collection Jim. I think the next step is to wack them into the hands of a network of cool folks who can keep them well.

Ha DOOM!! I've always worried about something like Bd just halting years of trying to get something going,one has to wait so long to prove out pairs i've got summersi going to a few good mates soon and some RFB to another,I'll be much happier when all the eggs aren't in the proverbial one basket. Jim everything is fine here frogs are good but all in one place some big brit summersi for example,I don't know of many others being bred here,rfb I also don't know of anyone else breeding those here.

Jim this sort of network out from a central hub with trusted folks is a little hope of mine,that these frogs might stay here awhile Without need for too much more to come here,Tis a bugger though i've already lost track of so many male RFB which came in to the uk each one is so special as an outcross from such a small number to start with . Is it poignant how fast something frogwise can disappear in captivity? I've got a lot of RFb here now Jim but as with the redheads utterly thrilled with the kids we have been so lucky with them. Ahh mate frogs that hardly ever look the same but are all stunning I want to keep too many of them they are so beautiful and they know me,what can I say ? :lol:

Hmmm redheads,Jim these pictured are SO fit, in this viv, they just launch from the top and land in the ll with a thud gives me nightmares :D dunno if the cans will work out it's all early days first eggs being moldy but that's something we see so rarely i'm not concerned first eggs an all. The massive thing is a female . We had some fantastic courtship also really funny last weekend maybe two girls certainly looked that way,then male goes and throws them about and one questions one's observations hopefully. But certainly i'm not trying to breed from a group of males,so yup looks like a breeding pair another viv that has to be a 1;2 unconfirmed as yet but puzzle I'm sure won't have a male in his patch but def a pair there and erm cough this lot. We'll see mate alot of observation needs to go in thank god Shaz's eyes are here,the silent one is an amazing part of this buddy.

Take care bro falling asleep good luck

Stu

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby joneill809 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:28 pm

Haha I hear you on the silicone Stu! I just make sure my edges out front line up on my home built vivs - the back are hidden in the bookshelves so you cannot see my crooked cuts ;)

I really appreciate the work you put into RFB, summersi, red heads. I agree - we often lose sight of the animals we have in the hobby and all to often they disappear or simply dwindle to levels that are just too low to sustain a healthy population. I was just looking at stats on different locales in the US hobby and to my dismay I was only able to see eight (yes eight!) summersi offered by hobbyists in all of 2015 out of 8600+ animals offered. It's stats like that that are really worrisome. It's my hope that more folks will see this trend and take on a less common morph as a project frog and dedicate multiple vivs to them like you are doing. Anyhow, bit of a soap box, but that summersi project is really important too and I admire your efforts!
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Stu&Shaz » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:45 am

Philsuma wrote:Fantastic Stu!! Those are stunning Red-Heads. You are , by now, very knowledgeable in the care of that species. Could write a really good care sheet, I'd warrant.



Hey bro ,how ya doing?

Phil sorry slow can't keep up way to much work and being physical in nature,the old bones leave me little at the end of the day. That said I've pondered your post a while and yup I suppose I could,no time to but yeah maybe.

The thing is though Phil I don't really do anything special with the RH than with my other frogs. Essentailly i've follow that same base game plan,try and find out all I can about where they live try and build a viv that echos that and also encouages fitness ha the the jungle gym . From there it's that ethos of try to be the best as keepers we can be so everything from UVB to carotenoids is pondered and implemented. Phil we graft,sure i'm a joker and lark around,but there is some disciplin going on behind the scenes two folks remember not just me,I ain't the sharpest tool in the box mate ,but much is to me made of that work ethos when applied to success.

Then really we get into parameters that i'd like to give these frogs in particular,that I feel are important they are widely known,but not always is it clear why,folks always say give 'em a big viv for example. Why would one want say a bigger viv for large oophaga than say maybe some auratus,essentially both will benefit all thangs being equal. It's the inviv rearing that I now feel is my primary reason for advocating the largest viv possible. I've already outlined the back story on these frogs pictured,they are without doubt the best we have reared,tis marginal mate to see puzzle bromleaf and the utterly hand reared female the occupants of viv 2 there aint much in it. But doing gives a handle into these tiny differences. Looking back i'm astounded how good a frog that wasn't reared by it's mum can be but no doubt in viv is best to rear these I've pretty much covered all bases now mate for rearing ,so from experience if you got some tomorrow that's my recomendation. The reason for the big viv now utterly comes into play. We are looking at a potential ( extremely fortuitous it has to be said) of a pair producing maybe 10 kids in 3 months,so the big viv gives those kids the best chance and has that potential for a higher microfauna,which acts to provide the constant food the tiniest ones need. the senario illustrated is extreme bro but still applies in two close clutches,the fight is to give the tiny ones the best. Back to disciplin keeper needs to be on those springtails like a rash !!!!

I have just illustrated a senario that points to large oophaga being productive this is NOT the big picture,this is a fraction of a year at peak breeding time,the next fundamental is stopping them and giving massive breaks. There is no place for pound or dollar signs here mate,DO NOT PUSH that breeding female,cherish her !!! When she is feeding kids maybe heaven forbid five she is laying huge quantities of eggs even a more usual 3 or one is still a big ask of her reserves. Stop her by any means ,fundamentally dry season,but if needed pull all potential depo sites. She is key to the kids being strongest possible she has to be in prime condition and that means lots of down time. Red head breeding season is short in the wild , nature holds all the keys think always long term never short . Get (make the most of) the astounding joy that she has given you in those kids and don't ask for too much,constant striving for best here and her needs not ours is paramount.

Hold on to your kids don't sell them until you have proved out at least a second female,again FORGET money,don't let the high value of these frogs ever enter your head see them as amazing see them as joy cherish how damn special they are but get one's head away from any thoughts of money that could contaminate best practice . I'm labouring this Phil. Not trying to to preach at all,there is a simple child like purity I hold dear with animals I see my leucs as much of a joy as my redheads, I honestly think this mindset is why I am here writing this about a dream that should not be real, pictured above. It maybe should not be part of a care sheet but if I did have enough experience to write one the ethos that allows me so sit on frogs and wait while we went through some or are going through some real hard times is important. If what Shaz and I have achieved with our first large oophaga can be deemed as success,it's not yet for me,but if that is so,then my outlook, mental approach, is paramount.

Going back to holding kids,with a rare scarce frog something bad can always happen cover your back don't rely on anyone else.

Next is really what I have already said to jim try and get you first kids you let go into very close friends hands make the backstops happen when one finally gets that far.

Oh one little thought I hold to a point of view that frogs are individuals we can make all the calls in the world about are these are social these are best in pairs but watch one's frogs like a hawk learn who each really is. My male "drake" we thought was agressive it turns out he is cool even in an overcrowded viv but shows the kids he is boss and then doesn't dwell. One might over react to an observation I did for ages before this lot and pulled all kids as we caught him standing on a little one very early on and my observation meant I felt he might kill them. It took a long time for me to pluck up courage to rear in viv ,because of one incident,where I didn't evaluate a behaviour properly,my first large oophaga kid Phil. Another red head male might be so different. Relating to behaviour and males,while rearing kids be aware that as sexual maturity is reached a group of kids can go from being at utter peace with each other to complete mayhem in days resulting in absolute need to move individuals. So many times I say watch like a hawk one needs to especially at this particular stage.

To sum up keeper on top of his game,consumate disciplin,the utter best that one considers in vit regime water food viv space and set up. We use repashy Ca plus as base dust vit A no more than 2x per month superpig in fly media and at 5% in bugburger put in viv(different avenues of caroteniods into the frogs). Rainwater as our water source,any wild grub I can get into them at any available chance,primarily the summer months in temperate blighty.

There ya go mate not a care sheet but some musings as to how we are here and what I feel might be of help to another as I say really it's what I do with all our froggies

Sorry again for being slow Phil time is so short it's never me ignoing there is always the reality of my life and fitting things in

seeya

stu

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Stu&Shaz » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:49 am

joneill809 wrote:Haha I hear you on the silicone Stu! I just make sure my edges out front line up on my home built vivs - the back are hidden in the bookshelves so you cannot see my crooked cuts ;)

I really appreciate the work you put into RFB, summersi, red heads. I agree - we often lose sight of the animals we have in the hobby and all to often they disappear or simply dwindle to levels that are just too low to sustain a healthy population. I was just looking at stats on different locales in the US hobby and to my dismay I was only able to see eight (yes eight!) summersi offered by hobbyists in all of 2015 out of 8600+ animals offered. It's stats like that that are really worrisome. It's my hope that more folks will see this trend and take on a less common morph as a project frog and dedicate multiple vivs to them like you are doing. Anyhow, bit of a soap box, but that summersi project is really important too and I admire your efforts!


Jim those summersi figures are of deep concern must dash mate no time now after writing the above to Phil,but a sad eye opener huh, will show you this silicone thing one day mate straight lines are a doddle just time man


best always bro thanks for everything

Stu

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby joneill809 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:55 pm

Hey Stu! How do you setup your summersi? 1.1? 1.2? Larger groups?
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby Stu&Shaz » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:14 pm

Hey Jim,orignally a pair,if my old lass (RIP) had of produced good eggs,i'm sure that would have worked. The group that produced successfully were sorry mate are a 2:2. Have never seen female on female aggression,have seen a tiny spat with two fellas chasing a lass,to be fair watching that Jim was so funny,way beyond comedian funny this was side splitting as each lad snuck up behind the lass when the other male made the next forwards move and stole her,it went on for ages much tears of laughter. In the end one fella jumped on the other and they had a brief scrap, but nowt sustained buddy one lad got the girl tis all,I watch 'em mate plus shaz tis all good. it is all good that was nearly a year back.

Old man ,my first male he must be damn old now for a tiny rani maybe 6 has two young ladies now Jim. So to sum up they seem fine as a group fine as a pair,always with the caviat that I think frogs although they obey some shared characteristics across a morph/species are individuals. My best success has been from the group,but that is not to be dwelt on as it means little apart from a group senario can work very well,but a pair or trio might see the same success,I guess all things being equal. Certainly I have seen and illustrated that more than one male might just help with fertility ie competition that prolonged courtship who knows what the subliminal effects are with all this minutia,but I have seen nothing negative to speak of with the two lads mate

Jim this I can't stress enough....... learnt the hard way buddy,if you want to breed get them seriously mature,properly so mate. They might be small ok a big small frog lmao,but if I could help ya and I always would try to offer something,whether there is wisdom or not there open to debate :lol: I'd get them to 18 month if poss without an egg being laid. Keep on the dry side bro damn they respond to BP drops,my old pair exactly the same. Definitely for us the most sensitive to BP drops of the frogs we have kept.

Jim an unusual frog for Shaz and I. Wekept for two years maybe more,but my old lass just couldn't lay a good egg,but we got our heads down read da books read da froshe. So when we got something that could actually breed we have all our back stops figured,but I still failed to stop them breeding for the time I wanted for them growing up(18months). Sure I was over the moon at seeing my first proper summs egg mate,not just jelly) I ain't going to lie ,but I feel I failed them,as I wanted them to be older when that day came .

I would say my/our experiences rearing those tads jim 2 from 40 beyond apalling ,to maybe one or two losses, from another similar number (can't actually remember any but who knows) ,whichever way one looks at all this, they,the adults, just needed to mature nowt We did changed .

Beyond that jim essentially like the redheads kept to a similar base regime of foods vit's etc illustrated in part above,hand misting is a big variable we utilize Jim,we still hand mist the ruddy lot. but the base care is similar obviously food quantity varies,but not much different from me other froggies.


They are in a 40cm high Jim.despite the very terrestrial life style I believe they would utilize more space upwards if given it. Mate even the kids climb alot,they are the one frog Shaz oft gets extra help with as she can't open the blummin tubs for froggies up top.

Cracking frogs mate can be very shy ,takes 'em a while to get to know folks,but the movement the courtship who they are is worth a bit of patience, and much more

take care bro

Stu

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Re: Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

Postby joneill809 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:09 am

Thanks for all the information Stu! As always, a very detailed and thoughtful response!
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/


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