Cayo De Agua

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TonyC

Cayo De Agua

Postby TonyC » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:47 pm

Thought I'd post some side by side pics of what I believe are a Male and female Cayo de Agua
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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:10 pm

Being that they are the same age , I'd say you have a pair there Tony.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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jmcc000

Postby jmcc000 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:59 pm

Beautiful frogs Tony!!
Those are my favorite Pums. One day ill find me a pair 8)
Jason

a Vertigo Guy

Postby a Vertigo Guy » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:32 pm

The more I see Cayoes, the more Id like some of my own.

Great frogs!

C

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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:23 am

Other than my lines, what Aquas are you guys seeing?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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gary1218
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Postby gary1218 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:01 am

LOVE the color of that female. Nice green without any spotting. That's the way I like mine :D

Can I ask a newbie question..............how are these guys different from what others call yellow bellies?

PGB

Postby PGB » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:36 pm

Site data is the differance as in real cayos have specific site data the "yellow bellies" dont and are best guess.

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Cindy Dicken
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Postby Cindy Dicken » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:44 pm

Can someone shed some light on the on the difference between the 'yellow bellies', and the ones that came in a couple of years ago labeled 'Chiriqui/ Chiriqui River' ?

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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:02 pm

Cindy,

The Cayo de Aquas I work with , and Tony has, all have very bright yellow bellies, consistently. The Chiriqui could be any mix of about three or four different locals, nobody knows for sure. The "yellow bellies" happen to look a lot like my Cayo de Aquas and have taken the name yellow bellies because there is no way for sure to know where they really came from. Some still insist on calling their yellow bellies Cayo de Aqua because that is what they were told they were by an importer or someone who could not possibly be sure. The same as with most of the pumilio imports in the last few years the yellow bellies are "best guesses". Unfortunately with the collecting habits of the natives you can have any of three or four green morphs sitting in a holding pen , hybridizing, until shipped. Always remember , just because a pum is labeled Darkland, Nancy, Cayo de Aqua, Uyama River, Robalo , or whatever, unless you have specific site local data from someone who collected the pum, you have a best guess pum. There has been zero new site data from the imports of those green frogs and MANY pum morphs look exactly alike when viewed via photograph. When worked with in person it becomes quite clear there are differences.

One last thing. Cayo means island. There are a lot of cayos in Panama. Cayo de Aquas are the frogs we are talking about.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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gary1218
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Postby gary1218 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:24 pm

GOOD info. THANKS Rich.

rozdaboff

Postby rozdaboff » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:22 pm

PGB wrote:Site data is the differance as in real cayos have specific site data the "yellow bellies" dont and are best guess.


I slightly disagree with you Paul about the "best guess" - as the name "yellow-belly" implies no locale - purposely. I have been pushing the name "yellow-belly" as hard as I can - often to the point of shoving it down people's throats. Unfortunately - there have been some calling the '06 Yellow-belly imports "Cayo de aqua", and it is imperative that it is stopped. The frogs Rich is working with, as he mentioned - have specific locale data. That is something fantastic for the hobby. Those lines should not be muddied with non-specific locale frogs that look similar. However - the '06 frogs shouldn't be discarded - but instead labeled descriptively (not a best guess on actual locale) and bred with other frogs from the same importation.

Cindy - the "yellow-bellies" differ from the Chiriqui River that came in a few years ago (and were still coming in during 2006) in several aspects - but the most obvious is the lemon yellow belly - which is uninterrupted by other colors (I have seen some Chiriqui with a light yellow belly - with light patches of blue/gray mixed in). The yellow extends up the sides of the abdomen where it meets the dorsal green coloration. I have only seen a few pics of Rich's Cayos - and one thing that I have noticed that is different with some of the Yellow-Bellies is that the back coloration can range from lime green to deep hunter green. Froglets have black speckling that fades away when they reach adulthood - but some adults retain a small amount of spotting.

Here are some pics of Yellow-Bellies:

Adult FR Male
Image
Calling Adult FR Male
Image
Adult FR Male with darker dorsal coloration
Image
CB Male (8 months)
Image
CB Juvi (~4 months)
Image
Juvi Belly shot
Image
CB froglet (2 weeks)
Image

BTW - great looking frogs Tony.

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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:07 am

Agreed Rob,
As to the fact that no frog should be discarded or belittled for the fact that it may not have exact local data. I work with tons of Darts that have no exact, specific data . The fact that pums are a big issue in the area of nailing down what they are VS. other Darts in our hobby is going to be an issue for years to come. Pums of MANY different morphs can/will/do look alike . Pics do not a morph make. This is my major mantra right now. I have guys emailing me from Panama as we speak to try to tell the VAST differences in the morphs.
Natives walking around gather whatever they find, collect them , throw them in a pen and someone ships them at THEIR convenience. PERIOD. Nobody who gets these types of imports can ever label these frogs with anything other than best guess/06/yellow belly/ what my importer native told me.........
I am more than appreciative with those who want to narrow the imports down and breed as close as possible. The best will be selective breeding with a few mistakes. The worse , hybrids.
For the VERY few of us who have only Darts to support us , and site locals we know are true, this is more than a bit frustrating. Not to mention those of us who love the hobby....
My Cayo de Aquas have and have had, blue legs with not spots on the body, body spots with greyish legs, blue legs with and without spots, on and on and so forth .........
One of my other mantras as far as books in the hobby is....GREAT PICS!

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:16 am

Another Aqua

I have yet to see an Aqua pic like it yet...
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Cindy Dicken
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Postby Cindy Dicken » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:40 am

Rich, Oz, thanks for the info and pictures.

TonyC

Postby TonyC » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:01 am

thanks for the kind words folks. They are beautiful animals and pictures hardy do them justice. I'm patiently awaiting the time when I happen to notice a little froglet hopping around, or heck even tadpoles for that matter :D

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RichFrye
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Postby RichFrye » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:43 am

They tend to breed in cycles Tony. Not sure which, if not both, of the two instigate the up swing in breeding but mine produce nothing or tons it seems.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

TonyC

Postby TonyC » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:47 am

I'm finding that out about some of my other frogs as well. Bred like crazy for a while, now seem to be slowing. With these two I've not heard calling yet either so as you say its likely the male is just taking his good ol' time to do his thing.

PGB

Postby PGB » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:54 am

how are these guys different from what others call yellow bellies?


Oz, this was the question I was giving that reply to.

How are cayo de aqua different to what others are calling yellow bellies? The true cayo de aqua have site specific collection data and the yellow bellies do not, therefor people calling them cayo de aqua are "best guessing".....

Maybe I should have worded my reply differently?

rozdaboff

Postby rozdaboff » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:58 pm

I get what you are saying Paul. I just wanted to point out that not everyone working with the Yellow-bellies is trying to attribute a locale to them.

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Re: Cayo De Agua

Postby Philsuma » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:29 pm

Good old thread to dust off for 2007 import info and pics. Good visual on sexual dimorphism of Oophaga pumilio as well. A good thread.


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