My batch of P. Vittatus!

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Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:26 pm

Well, two weird things are going in with the eggs. First, they're turning brown. They're clearly a lit tan color in the photo, and they were in reality. Now they're pretty much all brown. None have molded yet. Second, there are only seven in the canister. I think I can distinctly count ten in the photo, ut there are only seven in the canister. The jelly looks untouched, though. Odd.

When do you think it's safe to Say they're, sadly, done and to pull them?

Oh, and on a good note, the last three tads I have are all doing great! They're quite the strong and prolific swimmers!

Mark

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Philsuma
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:02 am

#1 - There are so many adults breeding.....you want to be cautious about overbreeding. Sometimes "excessive" breeding depletes nutrients and can result in infertile eggs.

#2 - The more you pull eggs, the more the adults breed and seek to "replace" them with more.

#3 - Eggs should be fertilized very quickly with that species. I don't think you should ever have to wait a day or even overnight. The should be fertilized by the male VERY shortly, sometimes right away.

The thing that I was going to do with that colony, was to split it up somewhat. Removing some adults will change the dynamic and produce different results.

This is gonna sound weird but, you are actually better off with LESS tadpoles right now. They are going to be easier for you to deal with - less as well as easy to grow out and trade or sell. With that size colony, you could actually have 50 -100 tadpoles every other month or so (conceivably). Going slow is.....ok....IMO.

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:28 am

Philsuma wrote:#1 - There are so many adults breeding.....you want to be cautious about overbreeding. Sometimes "excessive" breeding depletes nutrients and can result in infertile eggs.
When was the last time you saw eggs or a tad when you had them? There were no eggs and no tads/froglets when I got them from you, so they've been dry for a while until now, as far as I can tell. I don't know exactly how long a break is supposed to be, ut it's at least been a few months for them. Is there nothing I can do about this aside from separating them?

#2 - The more you pull eggs, the more the adults breed and seek to "replace" them with more.
This is the first clutch I've seen. So I haven't pulled any to date, yet.

#3 - Eggs should be fertilized very quickly with that species. I don't think you should ever have to wait a day or even overnight. The should be fertilized by the male VERY shortly, sometimes right away.
Thats the impression I had at first.

The thing that I was going to do with that colony, was to split it up somewhat. Removing some adults will change the dynamic and produce different results.
Wouldn't that just lead to more concentrated breeding per female?

This is gonna sound weird but, you are actually better off with LESS tadpoles right now. No, see where you're coming from. Not weird a all. They are going to be easier for you to deal with - less as well as easy to grow out and trade or sell. With that size colony, you could actually have 50 -100 tadpoles every other month or so (conceivably). Going slow is.....ok....IMO.I agree. It's perfectly fine.

Response in red.

That leads me to another question. If the female has lost nutrients to produce eggs, does that technically make her less healthy? I mea, is it something should be concerned about in the grand scheme of things, not just for breeding purposes?

Thanks,
Mark

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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:43 am

Overbreeding can lead to health concerns. I wouldn't say the frogs would die, but it's something to be aware of - hence a proper supp rotation and good dusting measures as well as periods of "shutting them down" / decreased misting and humidity ect.

That species is pretty good at hiding eggs and sometimes the females eat or destroy each others clutches, so it's quite possible that they are laying eggs that you are unaware of.

I still think that as a new frog owner, you're still a "worried parent" and stressing over all the things that could be "wrong" with breeding ect. I would say to you....don't worry. The frogs are healthy. You will have many tadpoles to raise in the future. Try not to stress and worry about a multitude of things.

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:30 pm

Philsuma wrote:Overbreeding can lead to health concerns. I wouldn't say the frogs would die, but it's something to be aware of - hence a proper supp rotation and good dusting On that note, they just got their first dusting of Repashy Vitamin A today. measures as well as periods of "shutting them down" / decreased misting and humidity ect.

That species is pretty good at hiding eggs and sometimes the females eat or destroy each others clutches, so it's quite possible that they are laying eggs that you are unaware of. You were clearly right here too. See below.

I still think that as a new frog owner, you're still a "worried parent" It's hitting hard and heavy. loland stressing over all the things that could be "wrong" with breeding ect. I would say to you....don't worry. The frogs are healthy. You will have many tadpoles to raise in the future. Try not to stress and worry about a multitude of things. Coming from a Saltwater background, it's in my nature to be overly-vigilant. That's something I'll have to work on with these guys.


Message in red.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I did a little bit of an overhaul today on the tank. I pulled all the leaf litter out so I can put in a little more ABG mix. There's now about 2.5" in there. There wasn't nearly enough in there to begin with. While I was doing that, I found three clutches of eggs. Well, really two clutches and one lone tadpole.

Here's the lone little tad I found swimming about in a little puddle on the bottom of a leaf in there. The leaf was like a cup shape, and there was just enough water in there (about 1/4-3/8") for this guy to be fully submerged. He was the only one in there.
Image

I also found these on another leaf. They were accompanied by 4 more eggs, all of which were white and moldy. I took those out with the turkey baster, and these guys are still in it. They look alive to me. I haven't seen any of them move for certain, but I think I may have seen the one in the middle flutter when I pulled the leaf ontop of theirs off. They don't even look like they have any yolk around it. They're in a cup with some spring water for now. They look like theyre ready to pop out now.
Image

I also found this clutch. All are obviously bad.
Image

And here's the updated FTS. I put in that long vine moving across the center of the tank, and took out three of the cocohuts. They don't use them. I've never even seen them hide in them, let alone use their accompanying petri dishes. I'm thinking about putting them back in, though, and putting film cans in there since my guys only seem to use the black ones anyhow. I'm hoping to get a vining plant to creep along it. I haven't decided on the species, though.
Image

Thanks for looking everyone! :D
Mark

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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:25 pm

Excellent Stuff Mark ! You are the perfect owner for those guys and a great budding hobbyist. Like I said before...we were ALL reefers, lol.

SO glad to see you enjoy those fellows as much as I did. They will actually teach you a lot about things, believe it or not.

Good times.

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:48 pm

Thanks, Phil! That really does mean alot to me. I love these little guys. This is going to be a loooong thread. Stay tuned. :D

Mark

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:51 pm

This is a horribly-taken video of one my females chowing down on some Melanogaster fruit flies. She just loves the little things. Sorry about the jerky tripod head and my horrible focusing skills. Try to enjoy anyways. (:

Taken with:
Nikon D300s
Sigma 180mm F/3.5 EX DG HSM APO IF Macro
Manfrotto 055XB legs
Manfrotto 804 RC2 head



Thanks,
Mark

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:00 pm

My shipment of IA leaves came in today with a good bit of spirulina and some suction cups, just to see if they will even use them. So, I transferred the tads into their own 32oz containers today. This is the last time they'll be bothered (:. It was really entertaining watching them dart from the open to under a magnolia leaf in the 190oz container, but I couldn't monitor how much they were eating, etc. So, this is where they'll stay for the remainder of their journey, until they decide to morph out. They're all great swimmers. They definitely gave me a run for my money when I was transferring them.

The main thing I noticed was just how big they've gotten! I was shocked! It may be only a difference of about 2-4mm, but it's definitely noticeable. I measure them to be anywhere between 1/2" and 5/8". That seems a little excessive to me, but that's what the tape measurer says. The one is still about 1/8" smaller than the other two. He has been smaller since I found them, though. He's every bit as strong and plump as the others.

Here's the current setup:
Image

Mark

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:02 pm

Well hello again everyone. Ive got good and not-so-good news. The good news is that I peeked in othe tads on the leaf and one hatched! There are movement in at least two others as well, so they should be coming out shortly.

The first 4 tads are all doing well. They're getting mighty big, and I believe I am starting to see their hind legs starting to sprout! Well, at least on the older three. They're growing so fast! And they're tearing up their almond leaves, nibbling on tadpole bites with spirulina. They're getting quite big. I'm feeling quite proud of them. :D

So that's the good news. The bad news is that I found two more clutches today. One with about 6 eggs, another with about 9. Both look infertile to me, and are quite new. They're brown with a lighter top and a white speck on the very top. Every one looks like this and has one single bright white speck ontop. I'll try to get some photos up tomorrow.

That's all for now! I'll check back in. Thanks for looking!
Mark

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Philsuma
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:46 am

Are there lids on those tad containers ?

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:43 am

Yes. The vented insect lids are on the containers. They don't stay ontop of the tank, btw. I only put them there for photo purposes.

Mark

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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:04 pm

Gotcha....just be sure the cups are well ventilated for Oxygen and Gas exchange. I've heard of more than a couple froggers that sealed up their cups and had tadpoles die.

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:43 pm

Yepp. I don't know of any other way to have them vented besides having actual holes in there, and I don't want that incase we have some flies or ants or something of the like in the house carrying chemicals to get in the cups. I figure the vented lids would do just fine.

Oh! And two more of the tads from the leaf hatched today! :D

Mark

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Philsuma
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:26 pm

Nice ! Those guys prefered the leaves for me as well. Couldn't care less for the good ole coco hut.

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:31 pm

They don't bother with the coco huts at all. Just as you say. They do seem to like the black film cans though. I don't see them in the white, but there's almost always a male in front of a black film can. They're quite the little characters, these guys are!

Mark

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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Philsuma » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:38 pm

They are some of the most efficient , "pit-bull like", opportunity feeders aren't they ? So strong on the capture with that lunge of theirs. I used to have a canopy of a large magnolia leaf above / on top of almost every buried film can and all you could see was a faint copper "mask" of their upper head / jaw area in the darkness of the leaf and film can until they shot out to clobber a fly. Love those guys !

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:22 pm

Update:

Image

They're all alive as of this morning. I can see them wiggle about every once in a while. They're in a black film can, my guys' favorite. I sacrificed it and cut the top off to try to see if I could mechanically get the eggs out, but my girls are a bit messy with their jelly, and it's really everywhere inside. No clear way for me to take it out. So, they're in a tupperware container, approx 8oz, with enough RO water to touch the bottom and sides of the jelly. They're misted, lightly, twice a day. I'm not sure how far along they are, but my guess would hesitantly guess roughly 8 days.

The two remaining on the leaf both hatched on their own and are doing well. They're swimming about pretty well, and I can already see them attached to the IA leaves, grazing.

Current count:

8 tads between 3 weeks and 2 days old
6 eggs developing

Thanks for looking! :D
Mark

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:10 pm

UPDATE:

I pulled this clutch after seeing a little over half of it be eaten:

Image

Fast forward a few days, and you get this:
Image

Tads 1 and 2 hatched (with assistance) and seem to be doing well. The rest had clouded over.

I also pulled this clutch in an effort to save them from the fate of the last clutch:
Image

There's something like 15 there and all seem to be developing just fine. There are little mini tads ontop of the eggs now.

I'll keep posting as I go!
Mark

Markw
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Re: My batch of P. Vittatus!

Postby Markw » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:10 pm

Here's a photo from today. I stand corrected. There's 11 in there, not 15. But they all seem to be doing well.

Image

And here's one of them moving that I particularly like. (:
Image

Mark


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