UVB Light - its pros/ cons

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Venutus1
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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Venutus1 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:19 am

in my humble opinion....

a sweet spot for a dart frog set up would be about 30 Uw/cm2 as measured by a solarmeter 6.2.

you would want to create UV gradient going from "0" to say "patches" of light up to 80 or 100 Uw/cm2.... and that would be fine.....

but the "bulk" of it could safely be in the 25 - 30 range.

The animals could synthesize vit D at that level just fine.... and no sun-burning would result.

(Side note:
Full Outdoor sunlight is around 250 Uw/cm2 at noon in US.
It is higher closer to equator and at higher altitudes. So basically 30 uw/cm2 is about ONE Tenth full sunlight.

20 - 40-ish uw/cm2 matches readings you can get in partial shade, DAPPLED sunlight... and foliage outside.

If animals can synthesize vit D from sunlight naturally, then of course they need it...
'cause that is how they naturally get it in the wild.
what's there to even bother and debate about? :wink: :shock:

Plus-- there is always the bacteriostatic and fungicidal element that adding UV light brings to an enclosure.

All you need is the top of the viv to be 10% to 30% screen with the UV bulb, (Arcadia D3, Arcadia D3+ etc.) positioned over it.
Solacryl or Starfire low Iron glass is NOT needed.
It is actually better to use a patch of screen method on smaller vivs.... since that will create better UV gradients (like mini "Ferguson Zones") especially in a small enclosures.

Yep, screening will knock down UV levels by about 20% - 40% ... but who cares?
Dart frogs are not desert animals anyway.
And, if upon testing with a Solarmeter, it ends up the UV is too low... simply switch to a higher percentage UV bulb.
Go from a 6% to a 12%.... and test again. if it is high, simply adjust it by adding a second layer of screen, adjusting how much glass is blocking the light... or something like that. :idea:
Easy peasy. :P

You CAN use a 10% or 12% UV bulb on dart frogs if it is getting knocked down by 50% or 60% due to screening, partial blockage by glass, or the height of the tank. (average distance from bulb)

The thing to do is test it with a Solarmeter. Why fool around if you have hundreds +++ of dollars worth of frogs??

OH BTW--
And the UVA light (for their vision) that is also generated by UV bulbs will penetrate glass just fine.

There are no "cons" to providing dart frogs with UV B (and UV A) light at the same levels like they would naturally get in the wild.

One personal observation is that I feel dart frogs raised under correct UV always come out with nice, lanky wild type body conformation.
Nice long strong legs and rich color.
None of this "pudgy body, short legs" syndrome.

Cheers!
Todd

Solarmeters are your friends:
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/solarmeter62.html

Here is an example of some ongoing solarmeter testing on different light fixtures at LightYourReptiles.com.
This happens to be a Tropic Blaze® panel light being tested for a zoo application.
This actually would be good for a LARGE naturalistic dart frog set up, say 4 feet long, by 3 feet wide by 3 - 4 feet tall.
The UV levels are adjusted by adjusting the ratio of day-light t5 bulbs (that produce no UV ) to Arcadia 6% ho t5 bulbs.
This could be further "fine tuned" to match understory UV levels if/as needed by simple screen filtering of the light or using glass to create uv gradients in the specific enclosure it is used on.
Lighting to Perfection !
4 bulb 2 6 and 2 6.5.jpg
Todd
www.LightYourReptiles.com
LightYourReptiles@yahoo.com
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:40 am

Excellent post Todd. I'm glad we are 'backing it down' a bit for Dart Frogs. Rich's reduced lighting thread helped me with my thought process as well. It's always going to be a tug of war with trying to colour-up broms and get some rare stuff to grow like crazy with higher light, but again, I'm glad we are discussing it here.

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:06 am

I wonder if anyone has done a comprehensive study of amounts of UVB exposure for animals of lower level jungle habitation - how much direct UVB ect, for instance. I'd have to think there are some good papers out there for data on Central and South America.

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Re: UVB and its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:08 am

dendroworks wrote:Here's a photo of my Redheads 'sunbathing'! I use a 10% UVb bulb once a week on all my vivs now - the frogs know when they have had enough and leave after between 20 - 40 mins. All my frogs come out and sunbathe - some do it quite sneakily too. The light is shone through the front glass doors of the vivs (all of which are Optiwhite low iron glass) and most frogs will come right to the front of the viv - around 6 inches from the bulb at first then slowly work their way back from it until they have had enough

Image

I have definately seen a colouring up of some species (BriBri, Colon, whitefoot and redhead being the most noticable). I think there are benefits for the frogs, many which we probably don't have a clue about so will continue to use it.

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Marcus

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:44 pm

The lecture by Andreas Zarling was excellent. He spends a TON of time observing Columbian Oophaga histrionica and reports that solar basking is absolutely a part of their daily routine. AND in extremely high light levels -so high, that he had to wear sunglasses and squint to observe them at times.

What does this mean for Captive Husbandry ?

I think it means some of the 'non canopy' species MUST have supplemental UVB for good health. And it may mean, we should explore methods of introducing SMALL amounts and times of UVB to several other species.

I'm convinced we still need to find the 'sweet spot' for some lighting issues.

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Stu&Shaz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:53 pm

Phil particularly which morphs was he studying? Were red heads one of them? I'm told and have seen some footage where the area where the frogs were found looked very dry,Nigel Marvin did a programme about Colmmbia there was a section with a redhead next to a cacti,I'd love to know how, what I saw, translated to light levels and uvb index. It made I stop dead and ponder!! Beyond that my thoughts are already laid out pretty much. I'm hoping one day John at arcadia and his team will come up with some UVB led spot lights,so we could replicate shafts of sunlight,more easily,sure it can be done via planting,but the odd beam of uvb would be such an asset to my way of thinking. Some of our frogs don't like it too bright, tiny areas,not even on all day would give them options. Like everything more options equal more choices for the frogs to self regulate,then we observe and can make amendments to/for them.

best

Stu

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:08 pm

I think 'most of them' - morphs. I know he talked about the 'Red Heads' ect.

I would use a 'puck' light - small round light that when you take off the glass lense, that says ' this glass prevents UVB exposure' heheh ...and sit that small light on the top corner of the viv and even then , take it off or use a timer on it, to make sure that it's only on for an hour or so every couple days or something like that.

https://www.google.com/#q=puck+light&tbm=shop

https://www.google.com/search?q=puck+li ... 4AOVt4CgAw

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby ChrisK » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:16 pm

Yeah I was talking with him privately for a long time and looking at his pics since I wasn't going to be there for the talks later, he only mentioned the dry areas for the red head morph to me even though we were talking about all the other morphs he was studying, said that during the dry periods he could pick up dry leaves off the ground and crumple them, and that the frogs would hide in cracks in the stone to get moisture, and that it would probably be a good idea to cycle less moist periods for them so they slow breeding down during that time, I hadn't tried that yet but I do notice that they seem to cycle themself through "seasons".

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby morten müller » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:17 pm

Hello Dartden

I hope this link fits into this post.

It deals with a highly acclaimed German breeder (Erik Schoop) he have tested 300 Watt Osram Vitalux UVB lamp with his Oophaga histrionica "Bahia Solano"

I know it's difficult, but try to copy his post to google translate, he documented results speak for themselves!!!

link
http://www.dendrobatenforum.info/histri ... 33550.html
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:59 am

After spending yet more time observing pumilio and auratus in situ, as well as lengthy personal communications with Brian Kubicki, I'm convinced we DO need to give these animals some high intensity - daylight equivilent lighting somewhat often.

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby ecichlid » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:23 am

And, you can do that best with a ZooMed 10.0 bulb over a screened portion of your viv top, that's is on all day. :-)
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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:36 am

Arcadia bulbs for me. And a UV spotlight. The thing is, that WE experienced guys know how to plant and correctly hardscape a tank. Most newbies design tanks that are too open or 'collesum līke' and those frogs would suffer from constant UVB bombardment.

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby ecichlid » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:35 pm

I hear you Phil, good point. Maybe I should put extra emphasis on what I wrote. It's a PORTION of the top. Here is a picture of that that would look like. Note the screened square in the rear, this is where the 10.0 bulb resides. I also use frosted glass, as it makes for a much more enjoyable viewing experience when you are at eye-level of the viv. I also think the frogs appreciate it.

Image

And it's 'non-collesum līke' contents.

Image

Not all of my vivs have UVB, but I wish they did. None of my ideas are original. The bulb and glass configuration idea is mostly from Todd Goode at LightMyReptiles.
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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby goods » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:08 pm

That's a nicely designed tank! And I totally agree that UV should be used whenever possible, especially when culturing more difficult/touchy species.
ZG

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby ecichlid » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:31 pm

Thank you Zach.
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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:37 pm

That is a nice viv. Can you expound on the frosted glass?

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby ecichlid » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:04 pm

Sure. It's a specialty item and you will need to go to a glass shop to get it. It's acid etched. It's much more expensive than regular glass. You place the smooth side in the tank and the frosted part facing up. You should avoid touching the frosted part with your fingers, as the oils from your hands will show as finger prints. All being said, I highly recommend it.
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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:10 pm

What does it do to the transference of the light? The purpose of it all?

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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby ecichlid » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:48 pm

I think you may have missed my post. "It it makes for a much more enjoyable viewing experience when you are at eye-level of the viv. I also think the frogs appreciate it." Or am I missing the question you are driving at? :-)
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Re: UVB Light - its pros/ cons

Postby Philsuma » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:59 am

ok...just more enjoyable for the frogs. No tangible benefit. No 'special' glass / low lead glass for UVB transference. Just plain frosted glass. I like it. Interesting switch.


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