Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Eggs, Tadpoles, Froglets
User avatar
joneill809
Site Admin
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby joneill809 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:55 am

After reading a recent post on Sylvatica, I thought it would be interesting to open a thread on discussions around how hobbyists can setup breeding programs that can help maintain a species / morph / locale within the hobby. This specific post got me thinking:

RichFrye wrote:What I consider to be a comfortable breathing room for breeding groups of any hard/next to impossible to replace darts as a real long term project is a bare minimum of three breeding groups of the one locale. And the first releases going to at least a couple good friends who will absolutely get my line back to me if there is a catastrophe and my line is lost at my site.

No, nobody that I know of or have heard of has anything close to that going here in the U.S. But, most don't go that far on many lines of the easy stuff either.


As Rich pointed out, most folks are not even trying this with more common animals, which, in my view, is something anyone with multiple tanks and a hankering to hang with this hobby for more than a year or two should start thinking about. This is a way to give back to the hobby, picking a locale, and dedicating extra space to it. I ranted about it here, but I think it's time to work out a blue print of sorts for those who are interested to follow.

My personal project frog is D. tinctorius Lorenzo. I've acquired animals from three sources representing the only two lines I am aware of in the US hobby. I've been managing my pairings and lineages of the animals I produce. I've held back offspring to guard against losses (which I have experienced), and I've tried to place animals with folks that have been in the hobby a while so I have a better chance of ensuring those precious few animals will ultimately breed and contribute back to the hobby and keep the locale going. Here are the highlights from my approach, and I'm hoping others will contribute ideas here so we can keep a master list going.

  • Obtain animals from multiple sources, preferably with different lineages.
  • Setup a tracking system to track your founders stock as well as their offspring. I like using meaningful codes (to me) that can identify sex, age, and source of an animal.
  • Create ID labels for your animals and move them with animals as you begin to pair/group animals of different lineages.
  • Be prepared with three (I use four) full size enclosures to handle your breeding pairs / groups. I prefer four groups since most folks like purchasing four froglets at a time. In theory I can offer four animals from four different parental pairings ensuring that a hobbyist that receives my groups has the best chance at "less related" animals, rather than sibling groups.
  • Ensure you have at least an equal amount of grow outs to sort your animals based on lineage.
  • Don't get into this for the money - be willing to cut discounts off retail for getting frogs in the hands of good keepers that are likely to be in the hobby for a while. This mirrored Rich's note on placing animals with friends that will be there to help out in the event of a catastrophe.

So what else am I missing?
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10494
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Philsuma » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:47 am

Excellent thread Jim. Excellent. But you know I'll be pulling no punches by adding my 02 to it.

Your labels and tracking and the sending of certificates is absolutely the way to go. I love it. Raises the bar. Now for the bad news. 97% of the hobby just doesn't care. There a lot of people that would almost rather NOT have any extra info - a lot of the nouveau riche obligate crowd. I wonder if the 5-6 'Tesoros guys' continue to use their certificates and info that Tesoros provided to them.

More on 'Frog Rooms' and abilities for people to keep multiple groups later.

Again, great thread.

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10494
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Philsuma » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:07 pm

btw, it's thread like this that give resulting credibility to both you and Rich for record keeping and shepherding the various lines. There's no doubt in my mind that efforts like yours would result in you being in the top 10%, heck prolly top 5% of frog hobbyists. So - no wasted effort.

There IS something holding back the rank-and-file normal hobbyists though. For many, many people, there is little chance of maintaining three or four groups of the same frogs. It's a money and time thing. That's what makes it so hard to gather and find people with the same morph /population. It all has to be hand searched to find people all over the country and possibly world.

User avatar
Armson
Senior Member
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:53 pm
Location: Haymarket, Va

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Armson » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:35 pm

Philsuma wrote:btw, it's thread like this that give resulting credibility to both you and Rich for record keeping and shepherding the various lines. There's no doubt in my mind that efforts like yours would result in you being in the top 10%, heck prolly top 5% of frog hobbyists. So - no wasted effort.

There IS something holding back the rank-and-file normal hobbyists though. For many, many people, there is little chance of maintaining three or four groups of the same frogs. It's a money and time thing. That's what makes it so hard to gather and find people with the same morph /population. It all has to be hand searched to find people all over the country and possibly world.


OH WTF!?!

I come up with a plan to improve all aspects of frog keeping and get negative Nancy response. Jim comes up with an idea to breed the snot of Tincs and gets a forum BJ from the owner?
I am clipping the brakes on your 4 wheeler in panama.

Jim,

Haven't there been a few projects likes this before that failed? There use to be a website that tracked this kind of information. Maybe resurrecting that site would be a good idea.


and on a side note.... Is Rich still in the hobby?


-Byron

User avatar
joneill809
Site Admin
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby joneill809 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:47 pm

Philsuma wrote:Your labels and tracking and the sending of certificates is absolutely the way to go. I love it. Raises the bar. Now for the bad news. 97% of the hobby just doesn't care. There a lot of people that would almost rather NOT have any extra info - a lot of the nouveau riche obligate crowd. I wonder if the 5-6 'Tesoros guys' continue to use their certificates and info that Tesoros provided to them.

I would be happy if we could get 3% of the hobby to care. I'm not suggesting this would be something everyone would do - there are some hobbyists with larger footprints for their collection - let's say you have 20 permanent vivs; what we're really talking about is picking one locale and dedicating 15% to 20% of your vivs to that locale to further the hobby, and 80% to 85% to all kinds of other stuff. Dunno, maybe that's nuts, but I think it's a reasonable thought and doable.

It will be interesting to see how the new large obligates are managed. If it were me, I'd be holding back the first 6 to 10, and setting up trades with other keepers from the import so that each of us had 2 to 4 pair of non-sibling animals. Same intent - selling pairs of sexed animals from 2 to 4 pair of non-sibling breeding pair/groups. I'm not a biologist so I may have all the terms wrong, but I think I'm getting the idea across.

I'm also hoping this type of breeding program would catch on with under-appreciated frogs. I'm targeting Lorenzo and NAIB True Sips - both of which need attention. There are folks like Chris doing the same for dwarf cobalts. Stu's work with summersi. Just picking one under represented locale is the give back I'd like to see.


Philsuma wrote:There IS something holding back the rank-and-file normal hobbyists though. For many, many people, there is little chance of maintaining three or four groups of the same frogs. It's a money and time thing. That's what makes it so hard to gather and find people with the same morph /population. It all has to be hand searched to find people all over the country and possibly world.

I don't think you need everyone to take three tanks, but if you do want to breed, I would suggest at least buying from two sources and grouping unrelated animals of known lineage, then sell off or rehome the others to friends close to you so you can setup a local breeding network. There's always a lower cost way to do something like this. It's more about biting the bullet on the cost of 2 fedex shipments. I get wanting to save $50, but I think it's worth it, especially for the more common stuff that may not be so common in 10 years time.

I'm also seeing a lot of chatter on things like the biopod. It looks neat, but certainly not cheap. If you can sink $200 to $750 on a tank, I think you can consider setting up a breeding program with 3 more off-display 10 to 29 gallon tanks for hold back pairs, no? Or at least think about it :)


Armson wrote:Haven't there been a few projects likes this before that failed? There use to be a website that tracked this kind of information. Maybe resurrecting that site would be a good idea.

Hey Byron- I'm not trying to get everyone to track their frogs - I'm just using my own tracking and labeling system so I can track my adult animals and offspring. I'll pass the codes on to anyone that gets and animal from me, but it's going to be up to them on how they decide to manage their stock. I don't see how we could get a legitimate, effective tracking system for the hobby in place at-scale, but I think we can get a few dedicated keepers here and there to setup their own private tracking systems that allow them to maintain good records for managing their small group of animals and the animals they produce. If we can consolidate that into a centralized repository in the future - that would be neat. JSON...mongo...visualization...BAM lineage chart! Or...a google doc spreadsheet. ;) I keep thinking I need to poke around the ACA and determine how they run their breeding programs.

Maybe that's the best way to manage it - have focal point hobbyists identified on the board for locales - they can help coordinate animal exchanges informally. I think this may work better than registry systems short term so people can see the benefit of more structured management plans.


Armson wrote:and on a side note.... Is Rich still in the hobby?

I have not seen Rich on the boards for a while.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

User avatar
joneill809
Site Admin
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby joneill809 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:49 pm

Moonshines - another morph we don't see....viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7416
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

User avatar
Sherman
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: New England

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Sherman » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:09 am

A cell phone "frogroom" app is overdue. Someone please make one.

Create individual files for each new frog, make a few identifying photos and notes, and "save" it in "tank #4" along with it's mate, which would have it's own file.

The app could record feedings and supplements regimes, (How many times did you use Vitamin A last year? What was the one you used last?)) You could record: egg, tadpole, and morphing dates. Froglets could have shareable files, created by the app that you could text, email or message to the next owner. The file can contain photographic lineage information along with any other pertinent information including Latin name, locality, origin, line, date oow, etc..

Most people don't keep good records because it is a pain in the ass. Cell phones can simplify this. No registry, your collection is kept in your phone, no where else.

User avatar
Armson
Senior Member
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:53 pm
Location: Haymarket, Va

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Armson » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:52 am

Sherman wrote:A cell phone "frogroom" app is overdue. Someone please make one.

Create individual files for each new frog, make a few identifying photos and notes, and "save" it in "tank #4" along with it's mate, which would have it's own file.

The app could record feedings and supplements regimes, (How many times did you use Vitamin A last year? What was the one you used last?)) You could record: egg, tadpole, and morphing dates. Froglets could have shareable files, created by the app that you could text, email or message to the next owner. The file can contain photographic lineage information along with any other pertinent information including Latin name, locality, origin, line, date oow, etc..

Most people don't keep good records because it is a pain in the ass. Cell phones can simplify this. No registry, your collection is kept in your phone, no where else.


I really think my posts don't exactly put my points across in as accurately as intended. This is exactly what I have been trying to push since I started heavy back into frogs a few years ago. I just wanted environmental factors brought into the equation. (yes I am rocking a double espresso, Tea isn't doing it for me anymore)

I seriously don't even know where to start with all this......
DISCLAIMER: My mind is racing because at work I am constantly being pulled in several different directions. So bear with me if my thoughts go random or ramble on. Please try and understand the point I am trying to make and help me understand why something will or won't work.

I have no idea why I love this hobby so much, I just do. I have been in it for over 25 years, This seems ridiculous because I am 39, but it's true. I asked for frog books for Christmas when I wasn't even in middle school. After High school I kept mostly tree frogs because there was more information about husbandry for them than PDFs. I dropped out of frog keeping because my thirst for information was simply not being quenched. Here I am at the birth of the internet and I still can't find enough information that would make me feel comfortable with keeping poison dart frogs.

Several Girlfriends go by. I start traveling, reef keeping, working. I am in Cozumel mexico on a dive trip and I have a dream that I walk out of my hotel room and find RETFs in the bush right out side my door and in the same bush are Pumilio and at least 3 other random PDFs. This dream starts to become a regular dream. In this dumbass dream I start taking notes on where these frogs were found what they are eating and what type of bush that seems to attract all of these frogs.

Yes I was dreaming about collecting information so I could start collecting PDFs (is anyone still reading this?)
I get back home and decide to look into how far the hobby has come since I left.

HOLY SHIT there are multiple sites and a shit ton of people that are just as fucked up as I am! This gives me a froggie boner.
I start reading and searching. (Go check my sign up date. Huge gap between sign up and my first post)
Life happens, wife gets preggers with my kid instead of someone else's kid (I will never forgive her).

Eventually I jump in... Only the thirst has returned. I am looking for information that I can't find. but I know it's out there, I know it can be created.
It's insanely frustrating when I am looking for more detailed information in this hobby and being told it doesn't exist, or you don't need it.

Let me wrap this up....

Jim is the only other frogger I know trying to go into in depth detail. His details don't exactly match up with what I am looking for but they are still important. I think as a hobby there is no reason we can't get to a much higher level of understanding. The technology exists to support us, just about every frog is here, we are only missing the people to record the information.

Ok so work is kicking in.... and my caffeine is wearing off.

Hope I made my point, don't have time to grammar or spell check.


-Byron

User avatar
joneill809
Site Admin
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby joneill809 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:11 pm

Sherman wrote:A cell phone "frogroom" app is overdue. Someone please make one.

Create individual files for each new frog, make a few identifying photos and notes, and "save" it in "tank #4" along with it's mate, which would have it's own file.

The app could record feedings and supplements regimes, (How many times did you use Vitamin A last year? What was the one you used last?)) You could record: egg, tadpole, and morphing dates. Froglets could have shareable files, created by the app that you could text, email or message to the next owner. The file can contain photographic lineage information along with any other pertinent information including Latin name, locality, origin, line, date oow, etc..

Most people don't keep good records because it is a pain in the ass. Cell phones can simplify this. No registry, your collection is kept in your phone, no where else.


Armson wrote:Jim is the only other frogger I know trying to go into in depth detail. His details don't exactly match up with what I am looking for but they are still important. I think as a hobby there is no reason we can't get to a much higher level of understanding. The technology exists to support us, just about every frog is here, we are only missing the people to record the information.


An app is an interesting idea. I can see a minimum viable product that would do what Chris outlined - capture and maintain data on an individual's collection. I could see that extended to a hobby managed site that allows you to upload said data if you wish to participate in a breeding program. We could likely maintain some control at the user level where they would choose which members to share data with. We could further anonymize some of the data for generic lineage tracking.

So I see an iterative development path for BOTH the lineage data I am so wrapped up in and the environmental Byron is after. I would place the lineage program ahead of an environmental dataset because of the complexity of environmental data, and I view lineage tracking as a core issue to the viability of the hobby and the preservation of existing lineages. It's shocking to me to read the old newsletters from Chuck and realize how many lines may have been lost over the years. This should not happen. I think the environment data is a cool aspect of husbandry but not fundamental. I've been wrong before - might be interesting to setup a ranked feature list....

And these are not novel ideas being spouted by me - I just post about them. There are many others that likely do a far better job than me, but I do appreciate the kind words. I write about it because I think new entrants into the hobby should think about where this hobby came from and what others have contributed in the past to make this hobby available to them, and how you can help to keep it going. Sometimes we get too caught up in new toys and the latest imports and forget about the history and the locales that are here already.

Fish bag retics!

Anyhow so it sounds like we can work to resolve some of the tracking requirements here and then lobby to see who can implement them in an app. Then look to see if we can create a voluntary repository / data exchange on DD or some NFP frog group. Could be interesting if we loop in Tesoros, CRARC, etc to satisfy Byrons itch for local data.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

goods
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby goods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:50 pm

joneill809 wrote:Fish bag retics!


You rang? ;)

I was typing up a response to this, but got too deeply into it and ran out of time to post before class started. I like the idea of keeping at least three pairs within a breeding group to maintain diversity and also prevent against calamities. This becomes quite difficult when you're working with things like obligates and are giving each pair 8+ cu ft tanks.

This is one reason why a local group of us began "Tiger Darts". Five well-seasoned South Louisiana froggers and 2 from out of state got together and decided keeping these species around was more important than keeping 1 of everything. Collections are managed as a conglomerate for the most part and everything is fluid. Offspring are given to one another until we feel a sufficient colony is built up, at which time, surplus may be offered for sale.

I realize that this is likely a special circumstance during a time in the hobby when scams and back-stabbings are common place even among supposed friends. We were good friends prior to this, and we have full trust in one another. The major pros to this model as opposed to the do it all on your own model are that you're putting your eggs in different baskets and each person has different perspectives and strengths. Due to our location, a severe hurricane or a power outage in the summer could decimate an entire collection. Having animals placed in different collections provides a failsafe in case of disaster (and is also where the non-locals are important). Also, by spreading out the resources, someone may have differential success with a hard to breed species. This cooperation may lead to techniques to more successfully propagate these rare species.

I'll end by saying that not every species/locale likely needs such intensive management, but those species that have limited genetic stock, have highly skewed sex ratios or that produce significantly fewer offspring in a given time are good candidates.

Currently, we are primarily focusing on obligates, those fish bag retics, INIBICO bassleri, and I just obtained a group of Kelley line summersi (old yellow fantasticus) that I hope will go into this management.
ZG

User avatar
Armson
Senior Member
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:53 pm
Location: Haymarket, Va

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Armson » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:18 pm

Which obligates are you focusing on?

-Byron

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10494
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Philsuma » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:22 pm

Jim,

Other than you, and Kris from NC - through Bill S. (RIP)...you two are the only hobbyists I know working with the Lorenzos. How many others are there, or how many would you guess - U.S, and/or World.

goods
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby goods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:32 pm

Armson wrote:Which obligates are you focusing on?

-Byron


A number of histo/sylvatica/granulifera locales, vicentei and Puerto Viejo pumilio

I know of one other frogger off the top of my head getting good eggs from Lorenzo.
ZG

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10494
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Philsuma » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:45 pm

I'll throw this in as well. ANY breeding programe is only going to be as 'good' as those members enacting and participating in it. This goes in line with 'Ethics' in the hobby. If you (hobbyist) are brand new or do not have 'frog cred', then things will go harder and slower for you. This is why I advise everyone to get your name/face out there and post and especially attend local frog meets and annual frog days - SO important.

We are a small niche hobby and reputation means a lot. Chances are, if you heard some stuff through the 'grapevine' , then it's probably true.

A bit of a generalization, but to illustrate my point: I have heard nothing but good things about the NOLA / LA krew. On the other hand, there are many more NYC hobbyists I know and most of them are decent, but there are indeed a few shit-birds in that city that prey on people and should not be in the hobby.

Respect and Reputation earned, is everything.

User avatar
joneill809
Site Admin
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby joneill809 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:45 pm

Philsuma wrote:Jim,

Other than you, and Kris from NC - through Bill S. (RIP)...you two are the only hobbyists I know working with the Lorenzos. How many others are there, or how many would you guess - U.S, and/or World.

There are 10ish folks handling Lorenzo in the US that I am aware of. Three regularly produce froglets and one seems to be getting going.

  • UE produces animals regularly.
  • Sean produces animals periodically.
  • Tommy/jdooley has produced a UE line froglet this year. Hopefully his pair is continuing to do well.
  • I have placed animals with four other froggers last year (shipped half of what I produced and held back the rest)
  • Kris, like me, has both UE and Schwinn animals though she and Sean are the only two with animals directly from Bills old school line that I am aware of. All other animals AFAIK are of UE origin or a cross of UE and Schwinn. That is my biggest concern - the loss of the Schwinn line.
  • EU has a lot of Lorenzo keepers relative to NA. Martin from tinctorius.ch has at least four producing pair including a black ghost. I believe he is likely the source of most animals over there, and is likely represented by the UE line - total guess on my part, but seems logical.

Given that I don't know everybody, I'm sure there are likely double that number of keepers. But I think that gives you an idea of the scale.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

User avatar
Philsuma
Site Owner
Posts: 10494
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby Philsuma » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Well, then that 'population /morph' is well accounted for, IMHO. I would have guessed that there were only half as many keepers as you list. Chris Sherman is very concerned about the Dwarf Cobalt lines for similar reasons.

Craig B. and I were talking over a steak the other day and remarking how many pumilio morphs are most likely going to be lost(to the hobby), or at least threatened in the next 5-10 years starting, chiefly with Escudo for obvious reasons.

We, as a hobby, actually have *too many* different species of frogs available to us. An embarrassment of riches, it seems.

Too many of something

goods
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby goods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:40 pm

Yes, Escudo is another that just seems to never take hold and be offered on any regular basis besides WC. It's one of the few species/locales I'd still like to add to the list of frogs I work with.
ZG

User avatar
joneill809
Site Admin
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby joneill809 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:54 pm

Philsuma wrote:Well, then that 'population /morph' is well accounted for, IMHO. I would have guessed that there were only half as many keepers as you list. Chris Sherman is very concerned about the Dwarf Cobalt lines for similar reasons.

Sort of. I would be comfortable with these numbers had we not experienced the loss of so many females to bacterial infections during breeding seasons. I lost two last year. Kris lost one. All three were confirmed via necropsy. There was a fourth that was described anecdotally but not necropsied. So what worries me is if you breed these guys "like a tinc" you are likely to see female losses. So I'm a bit uneasy with the situation, until we better understand what is going on. The pathologist I worked with suggested this could be a genetic issue with female Lorenzo due to limited founders stock. Luckily I was able to recover from the female losses because of hold backs. So now you know why I'm paranoid about four pair at all times.

Absolutely agree with Chris' FGDC project ... it's a shame the locale is in that state, but I'm glad Chris is on top of it.

Philsuma wrote:Craig B. and I were talking over a steak the other day and remarking how many pumilio morphs are most likely going to be lost, or at least threatened in the next 5-10 years starting, chiefly with Escudo for obvious reasons.

We, as a hobby, actually have *too many* different species of frogs available to us. An embarrassment of riches, it seems.

Too many of something

Agree there. The hobby gets on the latest trend, casts aside old lines, then they disappear. I hope discussions like this convince keepers to set aside room for one of these locales. I guess we should start a list of under-represented animals too as part of this effort.

Philsuma wrote:I have heard nothing but good things about the NOLA / LA krew.

Big +1 there...
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

markpulawski
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:55 pm
Location: Sarasota, Florida

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby markpulawski » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:24 am

...great post Jim, having local friends who can help with projects makes these things easier to pull off and is a safe guard against unexpected heating/cooling system failure. If you ever need help with stewardship I am in.
Zach good to see MY yellow Fants are still in the hobby, I begged Mark P to get new genetics of that frog into the hobby for years and now that he has I never see a post about them being available. All of the old line are a product of a 1.2 group I got from Vancouver, Canada in the early 2000's....those and the yellow Terribilis SNDF spread through out the hobby (Chytrid laden yellows that were saved by me with miconozole).

markpulawski
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:55 pm
Location: Sarasota, Florida

Re: Pay it forward: advice on setting up a breeding program

Postby markpulawski » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:53 am

ps keep calling them Kelly line yellow Fants/Summersi, most don't know they came from me.


Return to “Breeding - Eggs, Tadpoles, Froglets”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests