Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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Philsuma
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Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:10 pm

I think I had a PM on another Forum asking for info about this topic, so here goes...

My personal enclosure size preference for this species is:

20 - 29 Gallon Vert for 1.1

"33" Gallon Exoterra or Zoomed Verts or similiar size for 1.2 I do feel that the addtional female allows for the possibility of a greater morph rate and overall , healthier froglets. I try to maintain all my groups in this ratio.

Enclosure size: If you can swing it, "Bigger is DEF better". nuff' said.

Females can scrap - I have 2 Rio Guarumos going at it currently, and if I see a lack of aggressive feeding or pronounced weight loss, I'll pull one of the females.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby dtfleming » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:54 pm

Tks, for the info. Im def interested in them down the road
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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby frogface » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:19 pm

I have my pair (plus froglet now) in a 20 high vert. It seems like it's just on the verge of not being big enough. Not enough room for all the plants and hidey spots I think they should have. While I think it is ok, I'm hoping to upgrade them to a larger tank in the future.
Do you know where your frogs have been?

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby dtfleming » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Phil, would an 18x18x24 ExoTerra be ok?
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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:45 pm

dtfleming wrote:Phil, would an 18x18x24 ExoTerra be ok?


That size would be fine for 1.1

I suck at remembering which sizes are which.....I still like to use "gallons" just cause it what's my mind processes easily.

I use the medium / "high" exoterra and zoo meds and, can go with 1.2 in those. I just don't like "cubes" or those square sized vivs. I like the taller ones for pumilio.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby dtfleming » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:48 pm

yeah this would be taller than wide. I was thinking a 20g vert at first, but after re-reading this, I decided against it. Pumilio are way in the future for me, last frogs I plan on getting
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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby D3monic » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:12 pm

Hmm, I always figured a 18" Cube exo being about the perfect size for a pair. Do yours climb much? I know my escudo don't climb at all and my San Cristobals don't do too much climbing but then again they are in a 75gal horizontal so maybe if they did have more verticle space they would utilize it. I am no position to comment on pumilio care though especially since I only have two species.
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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:22 pm

I consider pumilio and most thumbs - 1/2 and 1/2 arboreal, so I make sure to give them the ability to climb with a higher tank.

Whereas I consider all Tinc and Tinc types (Leucs, auratus similar) to be at least 75% "terrestrial", and they get the lower tanks.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby ChrisK » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:24 am

In my experience, all egg feeders, not just pumilio, will use all the floor space AND height you give them (as long as the tank is extremely planted and lots of leaf litter), so I think the largest tank you can use with as much of both as possible are the best

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby D3monic » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:43 am

ChrisK wrote:In my experience, all egg feeders, not just pumilio, will use all the floor space AND height you give them (as long as the tank is extremely planted and lots of leaf litter), so I think the largest tank you can use with as much of both as possible are the best


I have 1:2 San Cristobals in a 75gal and they only utilize a little over 1/3 of the tank. Matter of fact only once have I seen another frog on the other side and that was when I introduced the new male. He went on a walk about before settling in by the girls.
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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby ChrisK » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:43 pm

Is it extremely heavily planted?

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby D3monic » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:47 am

"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom" LaVey

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby ChrisK » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:17 am

Do you check them out a lot in the morning or during midday? I got a CDA pair that I swear isn't even in there, but sometimes when I'm home during the day I see them all over the tank.

Do you also check them out before the lights go on? Some of mine also are all over the place with ambient room light, as soon as the bright spotlight comes on beating down they're in a brom leaf for the rest of the day - which also leads to, more large and large-leafed plants in there could also help, the type that fill up the "empty air" space in the tank which creates more useable area for them to climb on/around and that could block light from hitting the floor

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:29 am

pumilio can easily become content with a small portion of a large tank. Their densities are quite deep in the wild, some some individuals settling into small areas.

That's the part that misleads people into thinking that pairs of pumilio can do fine in 10 gallon verts. Anything is possible ( I saw Sean Stewarts grow out retics reach sexual maturity and lay eggs in a shoe box ! ) but all the breeders and people that I tend to value - opinion wise, say that bigger is better and try not to house a pair of pumilio in anything less than a 20 gallon vert. I personally shoot for 30 gallons and I know a lot of people trying to keep their pums in all 40 gallon sizes.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:50 am

That's a cool viv,Michael !

Can we get another video - a close up, this time ?

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Thu May 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Still seeing a lot of pumilio pairs being stuffed in a 10 gallon vert or 3-4 in a 20 gallon.

I feel that's all way too small..especially with a false bottom taking up space.

Thoughts ?

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby thedude » Mon May 28, 2012 5:52 pm

I do pairs in 26 gallon custom tanks. They seem to be about perfect for them. But I will say that I think it has more to do with how the tank is set up, then how big it is. When I had a BJ pair in a heavily planted 75 I never saw them. Now I've kept 3 different pairs in those 26 gals but instead of heavily planting I set them up better and they never hide.
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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby frogfreak » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:55 pm

thedude wrote:I do pairs in 26 gallon custom tanks. They seem to be about perfect for them. But I will say that I think it has more to do with how the tank is set up, then how big it is. When I had a BJ pair in a heavily planted 75 I never saw them. Now I've kept 3 different pairs in those 26 gals but instead of heavily planting I set them up better and they never hide.

Any pics, Adam?

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby Philsuma » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:12 pm

Seeing some people keep pumilio, even a pair, in a sterlite box for a temp tank. IMO...don't keep them in any sort of enclosed plastic box/bin/tank. Tincs, tinc-type frogs, I've never had a problem with in a plastic tote/box, but pums....It's my opinion that they need more ventilation and room. I lost more than a couple to bad enclosure sizes and designs. They were all WC, but I'm a firm believer in my theory.

I would never house a pum in even a temp tank, smaller than a 10 gallon - for one. AND it would have above average ventilation.

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Re: Oophaga pumilio - Enclosure size and Sex ratios

Postby sidney ferrell » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:45 pm

Philsuma wrote:Seeing some people keep pumilio, even a pair, in a sterlite box for a temp tank. IMO...don't keep them in any sort of enclosed plastic box/bin/tank. Tincs, tinc-type frogs, I've never had a problem with in a plastic tote/box, but pums....It's my opinion that they need more ventilation and room. I lost more than a couple to bad enclosure sizes and designs. They were all WC, but I'm a firm believer in my theory.

I would never house a pum in even a temp tank, smaller than a 10 gallon - for one. AND it would have above average ventilation.

Phil
You are 110% right. The stress alone for a pumilio to be in a clear shoebox is killer. Film cans or not. Before WC imports or new pair qt prep, I'll just prepare a 10g horizontal with pothos leaf litter and two decent size broms in the ground and I have had awesome results. Shoebox/tub qt procedure should be xd IMO.


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