Are Oophaga pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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Philsuma
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Are Oophaga pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Philsuma » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:16 pm

The actual frog ? Not really.

The level of difficulty - Intermediate or perhaps Advanced is mainly due to raising the froglets to adulthood. Many people fail with that task and some morphs like Rio Guarumos, morph out very small and are ridiculously hard to get to adulthood.

Then...

There's the prospect of most pumilio that are sold, are wild caught - stressed and parasitized.

All that said, the Eldorado morph seems to morph out noticeably larger than other pumilio types and take melanogaster fruit flies right away. That would seem to make it an ideal candidate for a "first" pumilio.

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Re: Are O. pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby BcsTx » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:02 pm

Here is my .02 and IMO, pums should not be a first or second dart, no matter what pum, ie. El Dorados, Mancreeks etc. They need plenty of microfauna and are small, my young juvie mancreek pums would jump out of the front doors of the viv when I opened them to feed. Plus need to consider they mature fast and there is aggression between males (unlike thumbnails), very easy not to see a juvie male pum until you hear 2 calling or see fighting. They prefer lots of leaf litter and not bright light so adds to the hard to see issue.
-Beth

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Re: Are O. pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Michael Lawrence » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:12 pm

I have a question, who here actually took on pums or other obligates as one of their first darts? How did that fair? I would not put obligates that much further up on the hard scale than many thumbs as the requirments are all about the same micro fauna, plants and such lacking the breeding requirments. I hear many talk about tank aggression as well in thumbs as well as other factors. I do not know how many darts are actually found under the more dense canopy compared to others but they all seem to prefer darker vivs. Its the plants that many of us are lighting. Id like to see more push to promote good beginner frogs than to tell people they should have this as its always much worse and argument to fight through and you know what happens when you tell an adult they cant have something because they arent ready.....

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Tony
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Re: Are O. pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Tony » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:20 pm

I kept larger darts for 3 years before I took on pums this spring. While they haven't proven to be any harder to keep, there is a lot more research and preparation needed to track down the proper lines and manage what are available than with tincs and such. I don't think the more common morphs like El Dorado or Cauchero would be a terrible first choice purely from the view of difficulty in keeping them, but the average beginner has not done the work to know how to responsibly manage them and that is where things can get messy.

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Re: Are O. pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Philsuma » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:39 pm

^^ all good opinons and experience guys (and gals). Thank you for adding to the thread !

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Re: Are O. pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Cindy Dicken » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:50 am

When I was working with pumilo, the 'starter' was the bastimentos. I had 3 pairs of these, before I ventured on to obtain the Shepard's Island, Bri Bri, and a few others.

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Re: Are O. pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Philsuma » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:03 pm

Oophaga pumilio are not hard to KEEP, but They ARE hard to raise up healthy F1- F2 generations.

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Re: Are Oophaga pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby Philsuma » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:41 pm

Hard to keep = pumilio...just may be more accurate than we know. For instance, how many F1 and F2+ are still around from all those 2004 imports ? Not near as many as other species - Tincs, auratus, Leucs ect. Must mean sumpthin...

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Re: Are Oophaga pumilio really considered "Hard" to keep ?

Postby RichFrye » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:45 pm

Philsuma wrote:Hard to keep = pumilio...just may be more accurate than we know. For instance, how many F1 and F2+ are still around from all those 2004 imports ? Not near as many as other species - Tincs, auratus, Leucs ect. Must mean sumpthin...


Hard to keep does not equal frogs that need to be looked at as projects and not impulse buys.
Pums = easy to keep. Hard to produce offspring to breeding age, mainly due to the needs for large amounts of quality small food stuffs. They are also hard (or impossible) to optimally manege if locale data is lacking.
Proper and full quarantine is a great help /must also.
I have a great number of adult pums which stemmed from a 2004 import.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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