Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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Philsuma
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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby Philsuma » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:12 pm

I thought I had that gran paper downloaded somewhere....Ed, do you know how much it costs to download ?

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Who' Ed?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby Philsuma » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:16 pm

edwardsatc

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby edwardsatc » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Philsuma wrote:I thought I had that gran paper downloaded somewhere....Ed, do you know how much it costs to download ?


Not sure. I have institutional access to the journal.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby edwardsatc » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:18 pm

RichFrye wrote:Right, but why not the the behavioral and color gradient between Golfito and Baru? Or the full spectrum from Golfito to Quepos?
You answer is essentially 'because' .



Yes, just "because" .... Ah, Rich your condescending attitude is so ... refreshing ...

Unfortunately, scientists don't consider what "Rich Frye" would want them to do when designing their studies. I posted a link to the article, and to the data sets, and even offered to send the pdf to anyone who was interested. I'm not going to spoon feed you the material as you've repeatedly demonstrated over the years that you just don't understand basic principals involved in science such as the scientific method, experimental design, model organisms, experimental limitations, confounding factors, population biology and real life limitations on experimental research (funding, personnel, permits, regulations, animal care and use limitations, etc ...).

It's really very simple. Read (and understand) the original research and you'll have your answers ...

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:21 am

edwardsatc wrote:
RichFrye wrote:Right, but why not the the behavioral and color gradient between Golfito and Baru? Or the full spectrum from Golfito to Quepos?
You answer is essentially 'because' .



Yes, just "because" .... Ah, Rich your condescending attitude is so ... refreshing ...

Unfortunately, scientists don't consider what "Rich Frye" would want them to do when designing their studies. I posted a link to the article, and to the data sets, and even offered to send the pdf to anyone who was interested. I'm not going to spoon feed you the material as you've repeatedly demonstrated over the years that you just don't understand basic principals involved in science such as the scientific method, experimental design, model organisms, experimental limitations, confounding factors, population biology and real life limitations on experimental research (funding, personnel, permits, regulations, animal care and use limitations, etc ...).

It's really very simple. Read (and understand) the original research and you'll have your answers ...

Thanks Donn.
I guess I use magic to get my results, year after year...
It was a simple question, and your "because" answer was the condescending part. Followed by yet another condescending and more post. You do condescending well.
Hey, but at least Sid likes it.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:09 am

Methods;

"We selected four populations of O. granulifera, aiming to include most of the color variation observed in the species."

This is the "original research " and it absolutely does not explain why they selected most phenotypes but not the Osa/Golfito/Palar Norte phenotypes.
Now, since I have read and understand that they studied certain areas and not others...Donn, please enlighten me as to WHY the areas I noted were not studied. I am obviously limited in comprehension, so throw me a bone and clue me into why certain locales were omitted.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby DrNick » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:40 am

Why don't you ask the authors? Their contact details are presumably on the MS.

Nick

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:04 am

Nick,
because it was a simple pondering, here on DD, as to why not a full spectrum work-up. It's not something for me to lose sleep over.
But instead of an actual reason (which is not published) I get condescending answers and personal attacks from Donn instead of answers. I was promised answers if I "read and understand" , but got nothing but 'this is what we studied'.


While it is interesting to read hypotheses on why we see red to orange to yellow and then green, it really has no bearing on my personal husbandry and these CB animals.
I find some information interesting and some information helpful and useful, when it comes to actual husbandry.
I really appreciate those who post helpful and useful information. And IF they happen to be the one who actually observed or actually bred or actually photographed or actually had some hands on experience with what they post, then that's all the better when it comes straight from the source.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby hoppityBoppity11 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:56 am

RichFrye wrote:Nick,
because it was a simple pondering, here on DD, as to why not a full spectrum work-up. It's not something for me to lose sleep over.
But instead of an actual reason (which is not published) I get condescending answers and personal attacks from Donn instead of answers. I was promised answers if I "read and understand" , but got nothing but 'this is what we studied'.


While it is interesting to read hypotheses on why we see red to orange to yellow and then green, it really has no bearing on my personal husbandry and these CB animals.
I find some information interesting and some information helpful and useful, when it comes to actual husbandry.
I really appreciate those who post helpful and useful information. And IF they happen to be the one who actually observed or actually bred or actually photographed or actually had some hands on experience with what they post, then that's all the better when it comes straight from the source.

So lets just say someone ends up importing some of these frogs from the portalone region...what should they be sold as? Obviously not golden grannie but o.gran "portalone"?

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby Philsuma » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:03 pm

The region name. Not another 'el dorado'

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Philsuma wrote:The region name. Not another 'el dorado'

Since there are hundreds , if not thousands of breeding populations in the area/s , I would be happiest with closest town and a number designation along with collecter/breeder/ establishment name.
For example,
'Quepos, National Zoo, Population #3

There are "golden" grannies all over the place, as I have pictured.

'
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby hoppityBoppity11 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:52 pm

Philsuma wrote:The region name. Not another 'el dorado'

Well it is the "golden" grannie...so itd make more sense to call these the dorado grannies. ;-)

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby cbreon » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:43 pm

hoppityBoppity11 wrote:
Philsuma wrote:The region name. Not another 'el dorado'

Well it is the "golden" grannie...so itd make more sense to call these the dorado grannies. ;-)


That's funny. But we don't want to make up names. Someone decided to call some pumilio imports "yara" when they were actually something else, now most of us think of that person as a liar. So lets not encourage anyone to make up their own names for stuff, haha.

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby hoppityBoppity11 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:48 pm

cbreon wrote:
hoppityBoppity11 wrote:
Philsuma wrote:The region name. Not another 'el dorado'

Well it is the "golden" grannie...so itd make more sense to call these the dorado grannies. ;-)


That's funny. But we don't want to make up names. Someone decided to call some pumilio imports "yara" when they were actually something else, now most of us think of that person as a liar. So lets not encourage anyone to make up their own names for stuff, haha.

Sure

But do know that theres usually more than you think you know and more people involved in such cases...enough said. Not going to go back and forth with this period. Have a good one

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby cbreon » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:56 pm

hoppityBoppity11 wrote:
cbreon wrote:
hoppityBoppity11 wrote:Well it is the "golden" grannie...so itd make more sense to call these the dorado grannies. ;-)


That's funny. But we don't want to make up names. Someone decided to call some pumilio imports "yara" when they were actually something else, now most of us think of that person as a liar. So lets not encourage anyone to make up their own names for stuff, haha.

Sure

But do know that theres usually more than you think you know and more people involved in such cases...enough said. Not going to go back and forth with this period. Have a good one


I'd sure be interested to hear all the inside info. Seems like the kind of thing that person could have easily presented here, and let people make their own minds up. I would have listened...

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:07 am

cbreon wrote:
I'd sure be interested to hear all the inside info. Seems like the kind of thing that person could have easily presented here, and let people make their own minds up. I would have listened...


I'd also be interested Craig. But ONLY if it came from reliable sources.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby morten müller » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:59 am

Hallo Dartden

Very interesting post, but I wonder, I'm the only one that would like some more information Abt this variant is being farmbreed or not?, is it really true, and how can it be possible with the very strict restrictions from Costa Rica? have this locality also presence in Panama?

I have tried to search some more info about this rumor and was unable to verify that it is in progress....

Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)
Regards Morten Müller (Denmark)

I did not listen in school, so I must apologize for my Chinese English, I speak it better than I write it

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby Roadrunner » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:47 am

So if it's an intergrade which "populations"(morphs) can it be bred to?

Are there really hundreds of "populations" around an area we only have 1 name for?
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stoner:)

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Re: Oophaga granulifera 'Portalone' aka Golden Grannie.

Postby RichFrye » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:53 am

frogfarm wrote:So if it's an intergrade which "populations"(morphs) can it be bred to?

Are there really hundreds of "populations" around an area we only have 1 name for?

We don't know anything about the breeding population that one lone frog comes from. It is a mustard colored frog, just like the one I posted and gave info about. This is why I have mentioned more than once that it would be very nice to see a larger sample size and not just one single little pic. And this is why locale data is so important with same species/difderent phenotypes...
But the answer to what to breed it to would be others from that breeding population.
Yes, at pretty much every single stream at every single altitude with diffenbachia you have a very good chance of running into a breeding population of grannies. How separated from the group over the mountain is a case by case situation.
There are indeed multiple breeding projects already under way. But not everyone gets export approval...and exports will not be large, as CR makes sure the breeding is legit.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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