Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
Frogopolis
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Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby Frogopolis » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:53 pm

What I'm talking about are real Blue Jeans. Is there a physical difference with these frogs throughout their entire range from Nicaragua-Costa Rica-Panama? What I am after is the coloration of a bright red body with blue legs. I've seen some Blue Jeans that are a burnt orange coloring with dull blue legs and they weren't Almirante.

I know these are an expensive form of Pumilo and are somewhat hard to come by, but I've pretty much narrowed it down to these or maybe Cayo Nancy/Solarte or Bri Bri or this other form, (?) Viejo.

I'm not ashamed to admit it - I want a bright red Pumilio.

sidney ferrell
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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby sidney ferrell » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:11 pm

I would contact patrick nabors at surian enterprices as he is supposed to recieve a nice shipment of tortugero bluejeans. Imo the nicest form. Along with p viejo,bribri and other bluejeans locales

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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby Philsuma » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:16 pm

Glad you asked this question, as it's not only one of my favourite species but also one that I have studied in situ 3 different times now. I have not journey'ed to Nicaragua to view the northern most morph but I have been close - North of Sarapaqui and all the way down to Bocas del Toro Panama (recently).

True red, as the Human eye perceives it, is not present in pumilio IMHO as a lay person and hobbyist. This also explains why so many cameras capture the colour of them so differently. I would say they are more of a deep orange or red-orange rather than a true red.

That being said, there is no such thing as a Panamanian 'Blue jeans' morph. The name 'blue jeans' was most likely invented as a tourist catchy name for the Costa Rica 'red frogs'. The 'Red Frog' is definitely iconic to all of the Costa Rican people. They are proud of it. When you get to Bri Bri and south to Panama...that's where the 'Blue jeans' stop and the solid orange begins.

Panamania 'Alimirante' morphs CAN certainly be attractive and with slate blue to grey legs, may even look more attractive than BJ in my opinion.

There are some size differences - possibly the Nico pums are a hair bigger ect, but otherwise all the care and husbandry with the blue and 'black jeans' is the same.

Blue jeans have been imported from CR in large numbers in the past 2-3 years - maybe even 500 -800 or more. Nico, not so many. They are all very affordable right now, as opposed to 5-10 years ago. Get them now and keep them so that when in 2-3 years from now and all the newbies and fly-by-night hobbyist kill theirs, you will be sitting pretty.

Frogopolis
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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby Frogopolis » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:56 am

sidney ferrell wrote:I would contact patrick nabors at surian enterprices as he is supposed to recieve a nice shipment of tortugero bluejeans. Imo the nicest form. Along with p viejo,bribri and other bluejeans locales


Thanks for the heads-up. What about the type called Guapilies, or spelled something like that? What is that full name of P viejo? I remember there being a picture of these on Saurians site in a greenhouse and they look nice.

Phil, thanks for your advice and firsthand info. I understand how colors can change in a photograph. If you go to Google and type in "O. Pumilio Blue Jeans" and hit the image bar one of several pictures come up of a bright red frog with really blue legs, the contrast is astounding. It would be nice to a pair of those.

I'm still researching so it won't be until spring when I get serious. I'm still collecting information right now.

goods
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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby goods » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:27 am

The term blue jeans is simply a way to describe one of the color forms of pumilio from the northern end of their range. There are three basic forms within Costa Rica: blue jean, black jean, and the orange BriBri look. Each of these has separate and multiple locales associated with each phenotype...black jean-Siquerres, blue jean-Guapiles, Tortoguero, etc., solid orange(BriBRi-the phenotypic name)-BriBri (the actual town), Puerto Viejo. These may or may not represent contiguous populations now or in the past. In the hobby, we've just now had CR CB imports coming back in, so locales are now being attached to them.

If you want a clean, red-bodied, blue-legged frog you can't go wrong with those Guapiles. I have a pair of the Puerto Viejo (site-specific BriBri), and they are very nice too and huge for a pumilio. Patrick told me they rank at the very top as far as size in the locales that he's seen. I also have a pair of the Nicaraguans, and they are truly that glowing cherry red, no orange on those guys. They're a little on the shy side though.

By the way, UE is about to release their first CR pumilio from CRARC breeding. From the looks of the pictures, it seems to be a BriBri morph.

Philsuma wrote:
Blue jeans have been imported from CR in large numbers in the past 2-3 years - maybe even 500 -800 or more. Nico, not so many. They are all very affordable right now, as opposed to 5-10 years ago. Get them now and keep them so that when in 2-3 years from now and all the newbies and fly-by-night hobbyist kill theirs, you will be sitting pretty.


I have no idea where those numbers are coming from, but they're flat out wrong. Costa Rica doesn't allow WC to be exported, and there is no way someone is farming 500-800 O. typographica-type pumilio in 2-3 years. Patrick and Justin's imports have been quite small from their farm...probably not more than 30 or so pairs of all the locales combined. Nicaragua has been releasing their form of Blue Jeans for at least a year now as WC into the States.
ZG

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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby Philsuma » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:51 am

You believe in Costa Rican 'farms' do you ? heh. Apparently the Ticos have learned farming from their southern neighbours then.

One look at all the C.R imports - size and general body condition, should tell one, all they need to know about farming.

Remember, blue jeans are being sent to Europe too. Have you been down there recently Zach ?

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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby goods » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:56 pm

So you're absolutely, unequivocally, 100% sure that there is no farming going on at this place?:
http://saurian.net/Costa-Rican-Frogs.html

I'm not seeing the upside-down condiment cups that you see in those pictures of the Panama "farms". This guy already has a track record of farming other taxa, and his animals have been sent to institutions in addition to hobbyists over the years. Another thing that separates anything coming out of CR from what is coming out of Panama is that in two years only 5 or so locales have been released from CR farms in highly limited numbers versus 10s and 20s of locales and hundreds of individuals from Panama.

Also, have you actually seen any of these imports in person? I have some, and they are in pretty good shape, better than the Panama WC I keep/have seen. Size and color can be explained easily by how they're raised. These animals are getting natural feeder diversity and strong doses of UV light.

Plus, Patrick is a stand-up, long-time hobbyist. I trust what he says over most in this hobby, especially just some name on a board.

Frogs are getting sent to Asia too...We like to blame Europe for a lot of things, and I'll agree that their wildlife policies are pretty lax. Smuggled animals cross borders there more easily, but I've never seen hard, concrete confirmation that hundreds and hundreds of CR pumilio are pouring through the borders. If you have proof and not something like "Hans Schletzenberger told me so", I'd love to see.

No, unfortunately, I'm a student and can't afford to just jump on a plane to afford a trip to Central America (as much as I'd like to go), but I do have real, lab research experience with these animals and have two friends who are actively doing pumilio research and are "down there" on a yearly basis.
ZG

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Re: Forms of the O. Pumilio "Blue Jeans"

Postby Philsuma » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:18 pm

back to the blue jeans 500-800 topic...

I saw the 'EU' blue jeans that came into the NYC area circa 2007-08 with my own eyes. There were at least 50 'pairs' probably more. They had all the hallmark physical characteristics of NOT being 'farmed'.

Add to that, Justin's South Florida blue jeans imports 1 to 2 years ago and that's probably close to another 100.

There's 200 adult breeder 'blue jeans' right there.


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