R. Imitator 'CV' question

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Lady Bullseye
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R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby Lady Bullseye » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:36 pm

Soon I will be getting a group of 6-9 month old r. imitator 'Cainarachi Valley'. 1.0.4
They are already kept as a group, so if I separate them temporarily, will it cause problems to put them back all together again?
Lisa
In central NY

R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' 2.3.0
R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' Froglets 8 and counting.

Chris Miller
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Re: R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby Chris Miller » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:30 pm

That should be fine, but watch for aggression as imitators don't do well in groups generally. What size enclosure are you planning to keep them in?

I guess if I looked at your signature, I would see that you have that big exo. I personally think that's too small for 5 imitators if they start breeding. There is the chance that a subordinate frog won't be able to put enough space between itself and an antagonist. There aren't a ton of hard and fast rules in the hobby, but something to think about.

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afterdark
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Re: R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby afterdark » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:54 pm

so do you recommend pairs only for Ranitomeya sp. - assuming standard hobby sized tanks Chris?
Mike
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Chris Miller
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Re: R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby Chris Miller » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:14 am

For vanzolinii group frogs minus lamasi/sirensis, yes. Reticulata as well, but i am trying some groups.

I keep variabilis group frogs together and I also do that with fantastica group frogs.

Now Mark Pepper keeps all of his thumbnails in groups, so it can be done. I believe it follows mbuna keeping strategies for African cichlids.

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Lady Bullseye
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Re: R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby Lady Bullseye » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:33 am

Thanks for the reply Chris. I realize they are getting near breeding age, and am thinking about what to do with them at that point. Currently, I understand there is only one male that has started calling.
I don't have them yet, but in talking to Ed who I'm getting them from, and in pics he has sent me, they actually choose to stay very nearby each other. As in, you can get all five in one close up camera shot, and all choosing one hide to be in, kind of togetherness. Is that unusual?

I thought that while they are separated I may be able to find out if there are other males, if I recall correctly, subordinate males may not call in viv with a dominant one. Is this true of thumbs like the larger frogs?
I have read and learned so much in the last few months that I think I am losing some of it out my ears lol.

I read that they are monogamous so I may end up doing pairs, but I have only started to contemplate anything about breeding as I am new to darts in general and have been focusing on learning all the husbandry type information to begin with.

I am very happy for any discussion that we can have that will help me learn all I can about my frogs.

Can information for any type of imitator be applied to my Cainarachi Valley? Or just what is said about the 'Nominate' (is 'Green' the correct term now? I see both in searches.) They are F1 from INIBICO imports ('07)

If anyone wants to point me at good sites for learning more information on these guys, or threads etc. I will appreciate it too.

(Phil should I have put this under the Ranitomeya section in Species List area?)
Lisa
In central NY

R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' 2.3.0
R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' Froglets 8 and counting.

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Re: R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby Philsuma » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:45 am

Lisa,

Keep in mind, as Chris said, that there are very few "100%" or rules in this hobby that are absolutes or even close to it.

For that size enclosure - the larger size "vert" type, right ? I still get confused by measurements sometimes.....If it were me, I'd max out at 4 thumbnails and even then, make sure the viv was well 'scaped and planted for lots of hides and barriers. Film cans too. Some people think film cans look bad, but I can't even see the black ones and I actually think they look cool in amongst the viv furnishings and plantings. Films can are a must for thumbnails IMO.

If you get a good deal on the 5 imi's, you can always grow them out and keep 3-4 of the sex you want and trade or sell the remaining 1 or 2. And no...that would NOT be considered "flipping" lol.

again...just my opinions above. Chris is very experienced with thumbnails, Rich with obligates for example. Just form your own "frog plan" and whatever you choose, I'll bet you'll do fine.

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Re: R. Imitator 'CV' question

Postby Chris Miller » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:11 pm

Lady Bullseye wrote:Thanks for the reply Chris. I realize they are getting near breeding age, and am thinking about what to do with them at that point. Currently, I understand there is only one male that has started calling.
I don't have them yet, but in talking to Ed who I'm getting them from, and in pics he has sent me, they actually choose to stay very nearby each other. As in, you can get all five in one close up camera shot, and all choosing one hide to be in, kind of togetherness. Is that unusual?


No problem and no, not that unusual I find that my juveniles often hang out with each other.

I thought that while they are separated I may be able to find out if there are other males, if I recall correctly, subordinate males may not call in viv with a dominant one. Is this true of thumbs like the larger frogs?
I have read and learned so much in the last few months that I think I am losing some of it out my ears lol.


Yeah, it's a tried and true trick for sexing. I mean, why bother calling if you just know that you will get the crud pounded out of you, so once they are on their own they will give it a shot.

Can information for any type of imitator be applied to my Cainarachi Valley? Or just what is said about the 'Nominate' (is 'Green' the correct term now? I see both in searches.) They are F1 from INIBICO imports ('07)


Yes, just about all the imitator morphs behave quite similarly and I have yet to find one that requires noticably different care than the others. Some morphs my be more shy than others but overall they require the same general care.

Cainarachi Valley imitators are most likely green imitators with locality data. So while they shouldn't be mixed for genetics purposes, any care information will be the same. Also, the term nominat refers to the first described subspecies within a species. For a while, imitators were broken down into 3 subspecies (Dendrobates imitator imitator (green), Dendrobates imitator intermedius (um, intermedius) and Dendrobates imitator yurimaguensis (striped imitators)) these have since been done away with. So, now the correct term for green imitators is holotype (the first morph described to science) rather than nominat/nominant/nominate. All this is confusing, so I just call all green imitators that aren't from INIBICO's collection in the Cainarachi Valley - green.


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