Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Adelphobates captivus (Myers, 1982)
Adelphobates castaneoticus (Caldwell and Myers, 1990)
Adelphobates galactonotus (Steindachner, 1864)
Adelphobates quinquevittatus (Steindachner, 1864)
chuckpowell
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby chuckpowell » Thu May 05, 2011 9:44 pm

They are not legal, but nobody cares. If you think you can keep them and can get some - go right ahead.

Best,

Chuck

PGB wrote:what is the legal status of this frog?

if it's illegal then why is it for sale all over the place?

I ask for a simple reason - I really would love a pair but want to keep it legal.

Thanks
Charles Powell
www.frogday.org

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Philsuma
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby Philsuma » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:03 pm

Simple explanation why this animal is not prosecutorially pursued.....

The criminal justice / law enforcement term is "selective enforcement / prosecution"

I am guessing....guessing here....that the Federal Agency sees that it cannot prevail in a case by case prosecution and/or it would be too costly to pursue this particular animal due to it's hobby introduced background.

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JJuchems
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby JJuchems » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:18 am

Philsuma wrote:Simple explanation why this animal is not prosecutorially pursued.....

The criminal justice / law enforcement term is "selective enforcement / prosecution"

I am guessing....guessing here....that the Federal Agency sees that it cannot prevail in a case by case prosecution and/or it would be too costly to pursue this particular animal due to it's hobby introduced background.



Prosecution is going to on factors, one of the biggest is time and money. There are not enough officers to prosecute, there are bigger fish. Look at Illinois, we have three USFW offices for law enforcement. One downstate (Springfield) and two in Chicago area.Using your train of thought, there would be no baby turtle prosecution. I know it is not a regulated species issue, but look at is illegal to trade. Yet, look around and you see them at swaps and tourist traps. Illinois prosecutes baby turtle sales though Illinois Department of Natural Resource Police (Conservation Police), though it is an FDA issue.

Turtle law: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/c ... fr=1240.62

Illinois Prosecution of turtle sales: http://www.pjstar.com/news/x726385419/T ... cking-case

So back at the issue at hand. They are illegal (CITES Amphibian Guide pg. 80) and you are subject to prosecution for ownership any time the species in known illegal.
Later and Happy Frogging,
Jason Juchems

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Philsuma
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby Philsuma » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:28 am

Exactly what I said.....selective enforcement.

Roadside Baby turtles are not "high on the list'. The $$ and manpower to see a hundred or so little mom and pop flea market or roadside turtle stands thru the court system would be a logistic NIGHTMARE. No administration in their right mind is going to direct sparse resources to that piddling activity.

Staying with your turtle comparison (for now, but it IS way off base by way of comparisons to Zoologically released dart frogs)....Now...F&W would absolutely go for the "big boyz" - the big suppliers that ship across state lines in the thousands ect. Research Don Hamper and Blandings turtles @ 10 years ago.

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JJuchems
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby JJuchems » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:46 am

The guys mentioned in the article were not big guys and the number of turtles for one of the sellers was well under hundred ( I want to say 20-30), yet 100 lots appear on kingsnake. It really does not matter how the frogs were released, they are illegal.
Later and Happy Frogging,
Jason Juchems

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Philsuma
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby Philsuma » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:13 pm

This species just may be a textbook example of a 'Grey Area' frog.

Legally imported on scientific and exhibition permits but zoo progeny fell into the hobby.

Can Brazil demand or sue to recover.....no way in Hell, IMO.

Can the USFW enforce these ? As long as they are in your house and you are not sending them across state lines....then I seriously doubt it. Spending enforcement and prosecution monies for this species ? Again...I doubt it.

I was offered 3 obviously CB Casti's a few years ago and I really wanted them, but in the end, decided against it. I just felt I had to remain a bit higher than I would naturally want - both as a hobbyist and now as a forum owner. Now, I have NOTHING against anyone who has CB zoo progeny of this species. I just cannot personally justify it, at this time.

Hence - THIS is what I would term a "Grey Area" animal. A 'threshold' term for us all....

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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby frogfreak » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:48 pm

I was offered some in the spring and turned them down. This frog is a little to on the "dark grey" side for my liking...

Best,
Glenn

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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby Philsuma » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:13 pm

oh...and someone Tell Ed.....the ZOOLOGICAL institutions need to shoulder the blame on 'missing frogs'. Did 'hobbyists' really STEAL frogs from a Zoo ? I'm not sure I believe that.

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RichFrye
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Re: Adelphobates castaneoticus, Do I dare?

Postby RichFrye » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:30 am

Philsuma wrote:oh...and someone Tell Ed.....the ZOOLOGICAL institutions need to shoulder the blame on 'missing frogs'. Did 'hobbyists' really STEAL frogs from a Zoo ? I'm not sure I believe that.


I guess the hobbyists should know the law better than the institutions responsible ...but , yes, Ed will tell you to your face (and others in the chain) that the hobbyist/s stole the frogs.
I can back up my statement...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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