Poll - Forums vs Facebook

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Forum vs Facebook - which is more popular to use for dart frog hobbyists

Forums
40
75%
Facebook
6
11%
Both are pretty evenly used
7
13%
Something else (post in thread)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 53

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Philsuma
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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:47 pm

I see one Facebook frog page now calling itself a 'community'....interesting.

Very interesting considering the HUGE level of commercialism and business applications that jump right out to anyone viewing THAT particular facebook page and it's owner.

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby zonz540 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:58 am

I think Facebook and forums both have their pros and cons. Selling through Facebook gives an opportunity to actually SEE who you are selling to, where on the forums you can adjust the level of anonymity to your own liking. This gives the seller some security and makes looking up a person who stiffs you on a deal quite a bit easier. I personally don't like the idea of dart frog buying/selling/researching on FB. It seems impersonal and I feel like I am one step away from ordering from eBay or Amazon. I much prefer the contact and communication I've had through this and the "other" forum when I've purchased frogs or feeders.
I know everyone has their own taste in frogs and the breeders and hobbyists that sell them, which is why more than a handful of us can continue to sell frogs and not have to worry so much about the kingpin breeders saturating the hobby with frogs. I personally prefer to know who I am buying from and have at least an email address or phone number that I can contact them if I happen to have questions or shipping goes awry, whatever. That is what is so great about it, they are there to help for just that - whatever.
I can't tell how great local purchases and trades are. When you have a person locally that has the knowledge, experience, and frogs available, it makes life much easier. Chris, who sadly (for UT) moved to LA was a wealth of knowledge, and a massive support for the local dart community here. I wish all of my dart dealings went as well as with him. He was extremely prompt about responding to any text or call and was more than happy to answer any questions at the drop of a hat. I've placed orders with several others through the forums and most have been great to deal with. That is the value of the forums, you are able to make personal connections that go beyond a few pictures and a website. It is a jumping off point to a much broader involvement, and it is 100% based on what you want to get out of it. Facebook just doesn't do that for me.
I recently placed an order for some frogs through a Facebook channel (before anyone has to ask, no it was not DFC) and have been semi-underwhelmed. Like I said, its almost like ordering from Amazon. Its lost it's personal touch, it's value, the reason I shop the forums in the first place.
Mostly Pums & Thumbs

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby RichFrye » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:36 pm

zonz540 wrote:... Selling through Facebook gives an opportunity to actually SEE who you are selling to...


No, FB gives the marketing team (sometimes a HUGE marketing team...sometimes just one predator) a chance to build what you think is a 'person'. When in reality it gives zero negative feedback and allows The Team to do what they will.

A forum should leave no room to hide. Some, like DD are very good at this. Others, like DB do not want ANYthing negative gumming up the works, especially if the gummed works effect sponsors.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby zonz540 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:42 pm

Rich,

I meant that to be from the seller/marketer's perspective. They can see whatever about you, the buyer that your privacy allows. Although, you also bring up an excellent point - Facebook allows for the seller/marketers to use your information for ulterior means.

As far as bad feedback/problems, I'd say that just like Phil said in another post, the forums are still the only way to provide actual feedback about these transactions (whether that actually STAYS posted on the forum obviously is dependent on the forum). My feelings, don't be stupid. If you buy from somebody who it won't hurt to stiff you, you're putting yourself in a bad position and are unlikely to get your money or frogs. Look at feedback on all forums before you commit to any sale, and realize that things may not work out for the best all of the time. If you picked a reputable and trustworthy seller, you shouldn't have any issues. If not, hope for the best. Either way, leave honest, detailed feedback and keep on frogging.
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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:58 pm

Posting pics and info on lehmanni on Facebook ? Facebook not only owns the content but also ALL the data - who clicks, who looks at the pic. Your real name and ALL your contacts. The Whisperer will NEVER get that content back, or out of FB. He's become his own worst enemy. He should have started a Forum or blog - wordpress, ect.

Facebook is even MORE of a 'human lobster trap' using your friends as bait, than it's ever been.

We own content here on DD, but would you trust FB more than us to back you up on the hobby ? I hope not.

Just because it's a closed group doesn't mean USFW isn't or can't be looking at it and all your data. They most certainly are.

Fly right folks. Resist the allure of the Lobster Trap. We will always be here. Day in, day out.Come back to the Forums.

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby goods » Thu May 05, 2016 2:51 pm

My friend and I were talking earlier this week, and through that conversation, it finally dawned on me the negatives of Facebook and this hobby. It has little to do with searchability of information or FB owning my pictures, etc. It's that the hobby and all aspects of irate in your face constantly all of a sudden.

I used FB for a few years before frog stuff caught on primarily to keep up with classmates, friends, etc. Then, as the frog groups grew in popularity joined a few and got roped into being admin for a few. Disputes happen, people leave one group, start another...the vicious cycle. There are now probably 20-30 groups out there, and I was a member in probably a bit less than a quarter of them. Here lies my biggest problem. Things that you'd see maybe once a year when all we had were forums or Frognet, NEFG, and other email based systems, whether it be pictures of certain species, special things breeding, etc. are all thrown in your face on a daily basis. Both the positives and negatives of this hobby are magnified immensely because of the sheer reach of FB.

This has somewhat tempered the amazement I once felt for a new clutch of eggs or a froglet running about that I hadn't spotted before, and I've become bored with the hobby (maybe stagnant is a better term) lately. I get much more excited when I see new spikes on an orchid, or I find new ways to propagate a previously difficult plant species. Because of this, I've dropped out of most groups, unfriended a number of people I don't talk too on a fairly regular basis, and rarely post on forums or FB now. I rarely look at a frog now that I don't have and dream of setting up an enclosure for it, but I often consider paring down even further and only working with species I know need to be worked with.

I doubt I'll ever be totally out of the hobby, but having it thrown at you any time you want to see what your childhood friend has been up to has really contributed to a significant reduction in my interest.
ZG

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Thu May 05, 2016 5:28 pm

Interesting post Zach.

Facebook is so 'Matrix-like', in that it is insideously in EVERY part of our lives - Online as well as REAL life! With forums, one can still be somewhat anonymous or at least separate the hobby from real life.

With Facebook, a lot of people have taken to using their first and middle names - omitting their last names in the hopes that people really won't know who they are. Ha.

I signed up for FB in 2006 I believe and short of the first dozen or so posts, I stopped using it 100%. I discarded all my 'friends' and friend requests.

The hilarious thing is that as you say, there are about 20 FB pages about dart frogs. Everyone thinks that they can be the Captain of their own private page/forum. Shawn H. was one of the first to 'flee' DB for a variety of reasons. Until recently his FB page was labeled 'Community' for a few years, and only now is it 'Business. heh

I heard tell there is some uber-secret Obligate Community by INVITE only LOL, that bars him admittance. Too funny, all the Tom Petty bullshit. Mark Pul. and others used to decry THIS forum as hosting all the Drama - Rich vs Sidney and Strictly ect but all that pales in comparison to how Facebook behaves.

Funny stuff.

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby joneill809 » Fri May 06, 2016 7:38 pm

I had not thought of that Zach. I am not on Facebook. My frog time sink will be the forums :)

It's not about the frogs most of the time these days. Are we seeing an inflection point in the hobby where it's experiencing an uptick in growth? It seems like most of the threads started today are more about displays and integrating "a frog" into a display, rather than building a vivarium around an animals needs. My guess is more people are seeing pictures via social media and looking to jump into the hobby. This "shiny crowd" seems to place little value on the animal, and most value on the display. I'm not against paludariums, in fact, I think you could make a pretty awesome 6 ft bubbling stream display for an Ameerga spp. but again, you'd have to build the tank for a specific species.

I got the latest import! Our unquenchable appetite for new locales is frustrating [to me]. I think the long time hobbyists are just as guilty of this as others. We as a hobby are not capable of maintaining CB populations of the locales we already have, yet we clamor for more. This escalation seems to be driven by the posts I think you are referring to, and the saturation of your FB updates with the latest and greatest. I'm tapping out of a few locales because of the abysmal population management within the hobby so I can focus on a few locales that need the help. I wish others would do the same, but there just are not that many folks that care. That is sad. These frogs are so incredible, and we are lucky to have access to them. We just morphed out 5 tincs in our local elementary's kinder class this spring. "Only" azureus, but the kids were awestruck and spent months working on modules on animal life cycles, our environment and conservation...in Kinder. This is the kind of stuff the hobby should be about, and what originally drew me in.

So I think FB is a double edged sword. It's driving growth in the hobby, but the distribution of serious keeper / casual keeper is drifting to the casual side of the spectrum, and we're watering down the original conversations about management, breeding, housing and general care that used to be more frequent. I can see where some of this frustration boils over and folks "take their ball and go home [to FB]' and fragment the community further.

I hope the forums can continue to anchor the core hobby, or at least this one. I'd like to see more discussions on population management strategies develop, and I'd like to drive interest with newcomers on maintaining these wonderful animals, rather than just oohing and aahing over "pretty pictures."

And don't bolt from the hobby - you can your LA crew do too much good :)
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby goods » Fri May 06, 2016 11:03 pm

Phil, I didn't even consider the individual pages in my estimate of 20. There are an immense number of pages. I have one of those of my own, but it is primarily an outlet for pictures that my "normal" friends and family don't care to see. The ~20 I'm talking about are individual, active groups (essentially forums).

Jim, moving towards a greater habitat aesthetic isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure, a paludarium isn't really better than a terrarium, but something large, well thought out and planted nicely (dare it be a biotope) is infinitely times better than a small, horizontal tank packed with Pothos. I've been pushing in that direction for years. Species management is obviously necessary, but I don't think these two aspects are at odds with one another. Moving from a ton of poorly designed, smallish tanks to fewer, large, well though out displays is a step in the right direction. That's a lesson I wish we could learn from the reef hobby.

On the "newest", "best", "shiniest" thing...one of the big complaints of the forums was that it started a signature popularity contest. Your clout was determined by how many rare species were listed in your signature. This is further enhanced by the "like" madness of Facebook. I've seen situations where people with less than a year's experience but they own 5 rare pumilio locales and 3 large Oophaga. These people are proclaimed as frog gods and in the next breath old timers who really paved the way try to add their input and are bashed as if they were newbies. Maybe I think too old school, but I've always thought you should know the history of your hobby and respect those who came before you. That's how I've always tried to carry my way of thinking, but maybe in this new age you can just buy respect.
ZG

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Fri May 06, 2016 11:16 pm

Even though I eschew using FB, I am aware of all of the relevant FB Dart Frog pages and the @ 20 that are similar to the forums. Oh, I'm well aware.

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby goods » Fri May 06, 2016 11:42 pm

Also, I forgot to touch on the ultra, secret group. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I was added to it by the creator (who was one of the aforementioned folks with deep pockets and no clue but was proclaimed a god because of the frogs they kept captive), and it was one of the least informational groups I've seen. Thankfully, that person is no longer in the hobby (<3 year stint), and their frogs are in much more capable hands.
ZG

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby joneill809 » Sat May 07, 2016 12:54 am

goods wrote:Maybe I think too old school, but I've always thought you should know the history of your hobby and respect those who came before you. That's how I've always tried to carry my way of thinking, but maybe in this new age you can just buy respect.

That entire DFC thread and the buying of 50,000 likes still remains an inflection point in the hobby for me, and it's what jumps to mind when you mentioned "buy respect". I don't see many people investing in the hobby - only investing in frogs. Powell, Schwinn, Nabors, Pepper (there are many others)...names that jump to my mind on people that invested in the hobby that allowed others to invest in frogs. I would ask any serious keeper - what have YOU done to build on what others before you have built?

goods wrote:that person is no longer in the hobby (<3 year stint), and their frogs are in much more capable hands.

A few years back I pulled some data on the amount of time between when a person registered with the forum and when they posted a collection sale. The average duration was about two and a half years. So that keeper was average ;)

PDFcollectionSaleDuration.PNG
PDFcollectionSaleDuration.PNG (10.49 KiB) Viewed 2326 times
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
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http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Sun May 22, 2016 12:26 pm

I had a spirited discussion at 3am with a few froggers at Rana Verde Friday night about FB and how it's better than the forums. To this day, and after all that talk, I'm still unsure why people think it's better. Confusing. :?

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby joneill809 » Mon May 23, 2016 7:08 pm

Ok so what is all the chatter over on Facebook about large obligates? I am not a member of FB nor do I intend to be.

It sounds like there are some illegal imports being flaunted? It *seemed* like the forums were taking a pretty good line recently against new imports of suspect origin. Are we seeing that stance degrade as the online presence shifts to FB and fragments?

That would be another big difference between the boards and FB.

Sad...
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Mon May 23, 2016 7:53 pm

I do think some of them are stupid enough to think a 'closed' Facebook group will gain them some degree of safety with illegal frogs and they couldn't be more wrong. I know for a fact, law enforcement and USWF have access to all the public stuff 'wall posting' and members info. They can get the PM's ect pretty easily too with a warrant.

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Armson » Fri May 27, 2016 10:46 am

Philsuma wrote: They can get the PM's ect pretty easily too with a warrant.


LOL Riiiight

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Fri May 27, 2016 11:01 am

You're right FB is totally safe. I PM people all the time for frogs from Europe and even my other hobby - stolen artwork and sculptures.

Come on dude. You safe Bro?

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby joneill809 » Fri May 27, 2016 12:40 pm

As the law currently stands, police only need a subpoena, not a warrant, to search emails that have been opened or are more than 180 days old.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/ ... -and-texts

I believe there is active legislation that is in Congress to change that, but it sounds like it's blocked by the 2017 intelligence authorization bill, and will likely not get a vote this year. At least, that's the best of what I can recall from the NPR story yesterday. So I think Phil's right, your cloud-based email records are subject to warrantless searches - a subpoena is all that is needed.
Jim from Austin please contact me if you are willing to trade offspring from:
lorenzo - schwinn line|NAIB true sips|fantastica nominant
http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs/

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Philsuma » Fri May 27, 2016 2:38 pm

Years ago I used to be under the silly impression that my Blackberry was invulnerable due to Canadian servers - located in Canada yada yada. Silly right ?

Same thing in the U.S with Face palm book. 90% of the entire U.S population uses it on an almost daily basis. You think your typed words are safe, hidden or hard to get. Please.

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Re: Poll - Forums vs Facebook

Postby Armson » Tue May 31, 2016 7:21 am

Guys,

Everything is being watched. While that article is all well and good. It's not the Government that is watching it's the actual provider/host. Then they report it and a warrant is issued. You have zero privacy online unless you are running your own servers and VPNs.

What I thought was funny.... is you said that they need a Warrant.


-B


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