Misting vs. the correct humidity.

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Misting vs. the correct humidity.

Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:24 pm

I Just wanted to get some thoughts on misting. I am of the belief that misting is un-needed (except for some plants) as long as humidity is in the "green" zone.
And yet some "professional " breeder's guides say that it is essential for breeding the toughies .
I have seen some of the tough ones run for cover as soon as I grab the hand mister.
Thoughts?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:43 pm

I don't mist all that much to tell you the truth and certainly not as much as everyone seems to prescribe. Come to think of it, the tanks that I mist the most are the ones with good ventilation. That being said, I do notice that my frogs, especially thumbs, are more out and about and active after a good misting and definitely show more breeding tendencies such as calling. I think that this is partially due to the sudden drop in temperature.

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:58 pm

Or maybe the ventilation is a bit high to begin with and after misting the humidity is at an OK point?

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:11 pm

The ventilation I was speaking of is primarily on my larger frog (tincs, leucs, auratus, azureus and galacts) enclosures. In contrast, my thumb vivs, (3 tanks of fants, 2 tanks of imitators, 2 tanks of intermedius, 1 tank of red amys, 1 tank of panguanas and 1 tank of vents) which don't have any ventilation.

RichFrye wrote:Or maybe the ventilation is a bit high to begin with and after misting the humidity is at an OK point?

Rich

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:17 pm

That is interesting. Some of my most productive, rarer frogs are almost never misted for the purpose of stimulating breeding.
David, do you actually see more breeding activity after misting? Or do they basically call through the day, with more calling and "dancing" at the same time of day (or night), with or with-out misting?

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:25 pm

Also, two things; Your thumb tanks have zero ventilation?
And;
Your signature is burning out my retinas David !
8)


Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:50 pm

Like I said in a previous post, I don't mist all that much to begin with, but when I do the frogs seem more active, especially with calling and such. When I mist the vivs it is usually in the morning and evening when the frogs are more active anyway. Maybe a boost in hydration aids this activity or the instant change in temperature has something to do with it.

Zero ventilation is pretty hard to achieve. My tanks have glass tops with no ventilation incorporated into them. I got the idea from a bunch of the Northwest breeders.

May I suggest a nice pair of sunglasses or don't you need them in Michigan? :lol:

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:03 pm

I just misted the tanks about 15 minutes ago and the intermedius are now calling in 1 tank as well as the imitators in another plus the red amys, other imitators and a pair of intermedius (different from the first group) came out to play, but are not calling.

PS Does that help the eyes? :wink:

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:23 pm

Actually zero ventilation is zero ventilation. If you have no vents (or cracks to let air in) you have zero ventilation, other than the opening of a door for feeding and such. Most of my "plumbed "tanks have only very small vents, due to the fact that I needn't be so worried about fogging up for display. My "show" tanks have a bit more ventilation.
This begs the question; does calling, dancing, "courting behavior", ect. necessarily mean more actual breeding? I am putting in a "no" vote.
It is my theory that when comfortable , they breed at their own pace. Spraying cold water on them may "perk" them up,.... but make them breed, nah.

P.S.
I think I will need a welding mask David, my shades have melted.
:shock: :shock: :shock: 8)

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:28 pm

By the way David, I am just jerking your dendro , as to your sig.

:wink: Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:45 pm

I think any species needs to be comfortable, in all senses of the word, to breed. That being said, there are definitely external influences that help to put an animal in the 'mood'. With darts, if you keep the humidity levels high, I'm not sure how much the breeding activity changes and to what degree from externals. I just don't have enough experience yet to tell, but I will say they are more active and calling after a good misting. Rich, is this question coming up in your mind because you find breeding activity to be intermittent and spontaneous across a wide variety of conditions?

Can you tell that I'm proud of my group even if it is in bed with the dendroboard? Almost as proud as your commercial website in you sig. :P

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:20 pm

Well,
Actually not many species NEED to be comfortable to breed at all. Many can/will breed up until the day they die of nematodes, coccidia, a bacterial infection, old age, whatever. This includes Dart species.
Everything we do to or for our Darts in an external influence ( baring barometric pressure) . That is my point.
Breeding in the species I work with is intermittent, some species more than others, but there are a few that breed like clock-work. The clock-work species happen to be the ones I do not mist, other than to addd water or "wash" stuff down in the viv.
It is my guess that as long as humidity is kept at "ideal" ranges , misting is un-needed to "stimulate" breeding.

David,I had no idea your group was "in bed" with Dendroboard. It was more the red blazin' DAVID MARTIN I was stirring the pot about.

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Rich Frye
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:25 pm

Depending on what your definition of 'comfortable' is, I don't agree that animals don't need to have it (comfort) to breed. They need to feel safe and secure. The temperature has to be within a certain range. These things add to a species comfort level and definitely affect their breeding habits. I'm sure you're correct that many species will breed in the light of nematodes, coccidia, a bacterial infection and old age, but not at the level that a healthy, peak of maturity animal will.

Well, it just so happens that the MAD Club was born in the dendroboard and most, if not all of its members are primarily active on that board. I guess you don't want me to pick you up a dendroboard sweatshirt at IAD? Large or XLarge? This whole medium of communication (internet forums) is interesting to me because it is hard to accurately convey one's thought and even harder to decipher what someone means. "Lost In Translation" This has nothing to do with you and our conversation, but I find it hilarious that people find the nerve to say something on the internet that they definitely wouldn't say in person. It's kind of like when someone curses you out in the car next to you on the freeway! :lol: I can't help but just laugh.

Sunday Sunday Sunday. One day left to make the deal of a lifetime. 0% financing with no payments due until 2006!

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:31 pm

Rich,

Have you noticed an increase in breeding activity or activity in general at lower temperatures? I just lowered my frog room temperature from 75 degrees down to 70 and it seems like there is more activity going on.

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:40 pm

David wrote:

"I think any species needs to be comfortable, in all senses of the word, to breed."

Any babies ever result from rape? A drastic, graphic example, but it makes my point.

I was commenting on the quoted statement , more than anything. I absolutely agree that the more 'comfortable" the better, obviously.
I just like to interpret things a bit literally.
My temps average about 66 nighttime, 76 daytime, in viv. Some variation to that with certain species.
I also agree that writing on a forum is setting ourselves up for all kinds of room for interpretation.
I would guess, though, that anyone who has had a phone conversation with me knows that I do not "pull punches" or tone down my opinions when talking one-on-one.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:55 pm

I would guess that 76 with lights can/will(?) raise the viv temp to 80 or above. That does reach the high end of temps for optimum temps. I could see better breeding from you temp adjustment David,

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:56 pm

You "pull punches"? That's funny. You're like the Bayonne Bleeder, Chuck Wepner who keeps coming and coming.

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:00 pm

I'm going to keep my room temp at 70 degrees to see the difference in breeding levels as well as general activity.

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Postby RichFrye » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:06 pm

First,
Thank's for the Wepner compliment David. He had ( still has) a few pounds on me but not many have knocked Ali on his rear.

The viv temps average about four to six degrees higher during the day, depending on viv size , location in the viv, and specie.
This is why a huge viv that has tons of micro-climates works so well. They move to where they like. Also less fighting.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

dmartin72

Postby dmartin72 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:09 pm

One tough SOB!

Good point on the micro-climates in larger vivs. I would think that taller vivs serve this purpose well.


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