New supplement(s) to add to FF Media

[BrianWI]

I have worked with insects, crustaceans and arachnids for about 130 years (LOL). In any case, I am enjoying the fruitflies and such.

While some insects can live on almost nothing we'd consider nutritional, others can't. So what they take in is what your frogs get. I am experimenting with a supplement in my fruitflies that I made something similar to before. Is there anyone out here that makes their own ff media that would be willing to test it on their own ff's? I could send out some to a few people.

In short, it should increase the nutrition for the flies, hopefully with some production gains. It should also benefit the frogs. If you have a spare culture to use, it could be worth a try. All I ask is for a bit of feedback.

[Philsuma]

Sounds interesting Brian. Rapashy is attempting this - breaking new ground with added vits and supps in a premade media called "Superfly". It's had some decent reviews.

We all want to better the nutrient transfer, that's for sure. It's not easy with FF, as gutloading like with crickets, is not possible.

I re-titled your thread too - to increase it's exposure...hope you don't mind.

Keep us updated please.

[BrianWI]

It isn't media, hence the title change may be a bit misleading. It would be something you add to your own homemade media. Commercial products hide the ingredient list so supplementing your own media may be hard. This would make it easier and actually goes beyond what even the commercial guys are doing. I don't want to say what is all in it as it would wreck the blind results I think.

[BrianWI]

I need just one more ingredient to arrive and I'd have enough for a few people to try on a couple cultures.

[BluePumilio]

I add bee pollen, oatmeal, and ground flax seed to my cultures. Sometimes I'll add additional ground grains if available. I'd like to add some a dried algae species but haven't gotten around to it. My culture produce well and my frogs look good.

[BrianWI]

How many people use just a basic media recipe vs a commercial one?

[RanaVenenosa]

I generally buy from locals, but I picked up some Superfly @ NARBC to experience for myself.

[BrianWI]

If you are willing to try what I have, I'd be happy to mail some to you. Blind study kinda thing. First part: are flies bigger, reporduce more, etc.

[RanaVenenosa]

Hi Brian
I appreciate the offer. For now I will pass. Honestly, my plate is full w tad care and improved precision care of specific species. Besides, If my FF were anymore productive it would cause a problem, as they yield max of what the FF jar can prob handle wout super pollution. I am prob opposite most folks, but I prefer smaller flies. My game plan is more about good supplement coating of the bugs and also managing risk by having an extra cultures etc in case I get a crash here or there, although I have not had any issues in some time. I bought the super-fly more for what I don't think I can see and measure and that is more nutritious flys... much like me taking vit supps to keep healthy, although if a giant frog ate me, not sure I would be anymore nutritious because of it LOL.... seriously, the super-fly was a huge bag @ same price as what I usually pay for homemade stuff so it was no financial premium lost.

Regards
Scott

I would like to hear some long time froggers give thoughts about the need for any improvement in FF media.

[BrianWI]

I can be hard to judge nutrition in an animal eating live foods. Small improvements, though t good for the animals, may be hard to notice.

What I have should improve fly production, but should also provide better nutrition for the frog. I have everything I need now, will be starting it in a few cultures this coming week.

[BrianWI]

I made up a few samples. Basically, you would add one tablespoon of this supplement to a 1/2 cup of homemade ff media. If anyone would like to try one, I will send you 6 tablespoons (enough for six 1/2 cup cultures) to try . Just PM me. I should have enough to send out four or five samples, first come first serve, I'll send free including shipping.

[dynekevin]

Very interesting subject.... i would be glad to try some. Ill make 2 at the same time. One with your supplements and one without. Ill moniter them a few times throughout the cycle and take notes. PM me for my information. We can keep in contact through the messaging.

[dynekevin]

Oh and you have to promise that there is absolutely nothing in there that could possibly harm my frogs in any way, shape, or form =) Thanks!

[BrianWI]

LOL. No, there is nothing that will harm your frogs. You could eat it (OK, but not meant for human consumption).

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Brian, did you ever stop to think that you might be changing the ratio of certain vitamins and minerals in the ff media and you may be causing more harm to the frogs than good?

[Philsuma]

It was always my understanding that media used to culture fruit flies was 'bare bones' and as such, not designed to pass on much of what is needed to supplement the dietary needs of the dart frog. We cannot hope to replicate the variety of prey insects dart frogs have access to in the wild, but we are working towards coming close with the use of varied superfine powdered supplements applied to the exterior of the fly.

We do know that 'gut loading' the larvae and adult flies is not practical or adequate for the frogs needs so we must rely on well made superfine dusting powders for the best result in our hobby.

Media is media...we just need to produce a good hatch (quantity). Dusting flies is the more practical and important issue.

This is the biggest "fail" for new people in the hobby who try to take short cuts and not dust properly - dead frogs.

[BrianWI]

Dusting will likely always be necessary. I have read much that says you cannot gutload a fruitfly. However, I cannot seem to find any tests of the insects (gut-load vs non gut-load). Repashy is doing the same as I am, I have read the reviews, but never find documented tests.

Is it insect type that meets the frogs needs in the wild? Or the natural gutloading of insects consuming natural, varied foods moments before becoming prey? Again, no documented testing. And from previous work I have done with insects, you can never forget the content of the flora inside the insect.

It is said a fruitfly evacuates its contents in 6 hours. Yet, my frogs eat LOTS of flies as soon as I put them in. I have read about various reasons why the media itself would lose nutrients before the flies even ingest it. Yet again, no one seems to have actually measured. Other than just basic fruitfly nutritional content (the bugs themselves), no one can seem to point me to an actual measurement, even the ones making the claims that it won't work.

It may need to be actually measured unless you know of such a study already done? I have come up blank so far.

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Brian, please feel free to post your documented scientific peer reviewed work with insects.

[phelsumaman]

I add bee pollen, oatmeal, and ground flax seed to my cultures. Sometimes I'll add additional ground grains if available. I'd like to add some a dried algae species but haven't gotten around to it. My culture produce well and my frogs look good.

May I ask why you have chosen these ingredients please? Just curious as to your choices

[BrianWI]

Does Allen Repashy ever post here?