Salt Creek AKA Green and Orange Oophaga pumilio

Oophaga arborea
Oophaga granulifera
Oophaga histrionica
Oophaga lehmanni
Oophaga occultator
Oophaga pumilio
Oophaga speciosa
Oophaga sylvatica
Oophaga vicentei
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RichFrye
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Salt Creek AKA Green and Orange Oophaga pumilio

Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 2:00 pm

.......a morph of pums from the Isle of Bastimentos, not Solarte, not Nancy (which means from the Isle of Solarte, that's all), .....Basti.

I am finding it more and more amazing the B.S. names some people are slapping on Darts that have been established in the U.S. and have KNOWN site locales.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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PGB

Postby PGB » Wed May 10, 2006 3:29 pm

Thanks Rich. I was just about to email you about these :wink:

It wasnt me that gave the BS name it was the German offering them to me. the frogs I have seen are red with grey reticulated legs no orange no green do you have any pictures?

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Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 3:49 pm

Hey Paul,
Not directed at you , at all.
In fact, I doubt that the person this is directed at, even reads the Den.
Here you go.
Attachments
Salt Creek Basti.JPG
Salt Creek Basti.JPG (135.57 KiB) Viewed 4446 times
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Frogtofall

Postby Frogtofall » Wed May 10, 2006 3:51 pm

Thats a basti?

PGB

Postby PGB » Wed May 10, 2006 3:51 pm

So you mean I cried for no reason? LOL just kidding

I can see orange but would go for grey on the legs how does the pic rep color? size wise would you say escudo (sp?) size or Basti size?

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Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm

That is a Salt Creek morph/AKA Green and Orange , from the Island of Bastamentos....It doesn't get much more site specific than that.

Tiny frogs, just bigger than the Popas I am working with.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Frogtofall

Postby Frogtofall » Wed May 10, 2006 3:57 pm

So how many morphs are on Bastimentos Isle? I know there are like 3 colors for the spotted ones (red, white and orange) and then a conglomoration of them (orangish-red, "gold dust) and now this Orange and Green.... what else?

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Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 4:05 pm

Hi Antone,
I am not sure if anyone can tell us every variant on Basti, much less all the pum variants on the rest of the islands, and certainly not the whole of the mainland morphs of pums.
A very good reason to keep the ones we do know (like Salt Creek Bastis) , separate.
Also a reason not to slap B.S. labels on known morphs.

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Jordan_B

Postby Jordan_B » Wed May 10, 2006 7:33 pm

I am beginning to agree on the salt creek thing, but as far as I know green and orange pums are not salt creek. Every one I have seen doesn't look like a salt creek, they have some spotting, less color, and a much flatter shade of dull orange. Any more info on the salt creek morph?

Jordan

Jordan_B

Postby Jordan_B » Wed May 10, 2006 7:43 pm

Frogtofall wrote:So how many morphs are on Bastimentos Isle? I know there are like 3 colors for the spotted ones (red, white and orange) and then a conglomoration of them (orangish-red, "gold dust) and now this Orange and Green.... what else?


They aren't considered to be what many of us hobbyists call a "basti", they are a VERY different frog that happens to live specifically at salt creek, which is on the island of bastiments. The ones you described are simply color variations of the same type of frog, whereas salt creek are not.

Frogtofall

Postby Frogtofall » Wed May 10, 2006 8:04 pm

Jordan_B wrote:
Frogtofall wrote:So how many morphs are on Bastimentos Isle? I know there are like 3 colors for the spotted ones (red, white and orange) and then a conglomoration of them (orangish-red, "gold dust) and now this Orange and Green.... what else?


They aren't considered to be what many of us hobbyists call a "basti", they are a VERY different frog that happens to live specifically at salt creek, which is on the island of bastiments. The ones you described are simply color variations of the same type of frog, whereas salt creek are not.


I know they are color variants of the same frog, but TECHNICALLY the Salt Creek would be too. They are all D. pumilio are they not? They are all morphs.

I just want to know how many morphs of pumilio are on the island.

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Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 8:37 pm

FTF wrote..
"I just want to know how many morphs of pumilio are on the island. "


Antone,
The quick and easy answer is .....so do I and everyone else.
Exact taxonomy not available....
There are a certain number of morphs/sub species in any large geographical area.
Pumilio are pumilio. tincs are tincs. Very similar analogies apply to both as far as geography, size, locals, activity, aggression, ect., ....I can go on forever.
And I can tell you that all tincs are different and have different husbandry needs and wants....same as pumilio.

Getting back to Salt Creek Bastimentos Pumilio...
These are known frogs with known Basti locales, that are being labeled anything but a Basti.... I wonder why........
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Jordan_B

Postby Jordan_B » Wed May 10, 2006 8:38 pm

Color varients of the same frog technically, but they are VERY different than bastis, or spotted bastis. Technically Blue Jeans and Salt Creek are all pumilio and have red bodies and different colored legs, but one is very large and one is tiny. They are certainly very different from bastis. Who knows how many different types of pums are on each of these islands though!

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Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 8:46 pm

BTW,
Yes, I can find you a pic of a Nancy that looks like a Basti. A Basti that looks like a Nancy. An Aqua that resembles a Popa. A San Christobal that looks like .....well , alot of other frogs that are coming in right now.
Blue Jeans that look like AlmerSwartzSquirMans.....
This is exactly the point I am trying to make.
Don't slap a label unless you are sure to the best of YOUR ability, not someone elses'.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Jordan_B

Postby Jordan_B » Wed May 10, 2006 9:02 pm

Good post Rich. I saw some pics of what the europeans call salt creek as well, and they are the same frog (with some variability). So what do we call the orange and greens, since they seem to breed consistantly with the dull orange back and pale grey legs, and some spotting, and the salt creeks I have seen breed "true", whatever that is in this case. Are they just a different phase of salt creek?

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Postby RichFrye » Wed May 10, 2006 10:07 pm

Gonna start a new Pum post tomorrow.
Just too much crap I see with a lot of very cool froggers trying to do the best with what we have right now.
I am sure some of my posts may seem directed at some of these Pum vendors, not so , I am just trying to set as much straight as soon as possible.

A "chat " or whatever sort of forum may be in line for some of this stuff.
Hint

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

pa.walt
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what kind is it.....

Postby pa.walt » Thu May 11, 2006 11:02 am

i think this is a tough question to answer with bastis. if you have ever been to Justin Yeager's site he has a pic of 6 diferent colored bastis in his hands. from what I remember they were from the same area. another example is Blake Wood was selling froglets (dapled copper color) that looked diferent from the parents(orange and spots). but then again I'm no expert on pumilio. look when they first brought the bruno and alimerante in that then were chirique and mancreek.

The only way we will know for sure is if we get them from the jungle ourselves .

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Postby RichFrye » Thu May 11, 2006 11:59 am

There are really a few separate issues here:

One is the fact that there are pum morphs that have known site locals being breed here in the States, that some froggers are knowingly mislabeling.

Two, there are pum morphs being breed here in the U.S that are being unknowingly mislabeled.

Three, there are pums morphs coming into the country right now that we do not know site locals OR morphs , with certainty.

Four, If we do in fact have "general site locals" or "code names" that may be helpful with these new pums coming in, it is a moot point because a jumble comes in and it is still best guess to separate the Xs from the Ys that look VERY similar to each other , but not exactly.

Five, pums can , will, do, throw different looking offspring , similar looking offspring as the parents, and will throw frogs that look very much like one , two, or ten other morphs from very different site locals.

Six, EVERY pum morph that I have worked with act, look (in person, size, ect.) produce, fight, feed, ect., VERY differently.Why, because they are different animals, period. Let's keep it that way as best we can .

Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476

Jordan_B

Postby Jordan_B » Thu May 11, 2006 12:13 pm

RichFrye wrote:Six, EVERY pum morph that I have worked with act, look (in person, size, ect.) produce, fight, feed, ect., VERY differently.Why, because they are different animals, period. Let's keep it that way as best we can .

Rich


Nicely said Rich, it is important to distinguish that locality terms which refer to specific frogs like "basti", "colon", "nancy", etc are not the only frogs like that on the island, and should not be kept/bred together just because they come from the same island in Panama. Now, how about getting some pics up of those popa :)! I can't believe they are smaller than solarte, I thought those guys were tiny.

Jordan

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Postby RichFrye » Thu May 11, 2006 12:32 pm

Isla Popa are not smaller than solarte, but they are smaller than Salt Creek...
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476


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