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This has me stumped. I have a pair Sauls and to my disbelief the female laid a clutch of 9 eggs and she is only 10 months old. I have never had this happen before they hit around 14 months or so. Is this going to affect her health? I had no clue this was possible at this age. I have been breeding tincs for almost ten years and never seen one lay eggs before it was a year old. The age is guarenteed accurate within a week or two so is it me or is this odd?
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I've had it happen a couple times. One situation was Terribilis breeding before a years time...
What I speculate at is that at the time I thought that feeding very heavy was a good thing. They grew (matured) very fast and thus produced young.
It has been brought up that it may be a good thing to let them mature at a bit slower pace than some of this rapid weight gain could be causing.
I have no idea how much you feed , what you feed, or if this is even relevant to your situation, rather just some thoughts and my experience.
And I really did not notice any detriment to their health down the line, but tincs have the potential for living very long lives...
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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The health of the frogs is what I'm worried about. These two are not full grown size wise but they are close. I wasn't sure if this miight shorten the life of the female or hurt her health.
I feed everything over 6 months old every other day with exeption for my thumbnails they eat daily and feed the froglets smaller amounts of ff twice a day. I always use supplements. I have heard of overfeeding and I know most frogs in this hobby are overfed or too fat but I have not heard of this causing ealier maturity.
I used to breed boas and pythons and I have seen a boa grow to over six feet in a year and breed shortly after but the conditions for reptile growth have to do with space, heating requirements, and food and how often you feed.
My question is, Is there anything other than daily feedings with supplements that will contribute to the rate of growth for dendrobates because I havent noticed anything else?
Other than ff I also use springtails, pinhead crickets, extra small pheonix worms and some isopods and termites.
I house every breeding pair in fifty five gallons and every froglet singlely in five gallons and the thumbnail froglets go into vert five gallons singley.
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Poison Beauties Wrote:The health of the frogs is what I'm worried about. These two are not full grown size wise but they are close. I wasn't sure if this might shorten the life of the female or hurt her health...
...My question is, Is there anything other than daily feedings with supplements that will contribute to the rate of growth for dendrobates because I haven't noticed anything else?...
It has been speculated (and there may be studies I can not site at this time) that very rapid growth to an early breeding stage can be detrimental to their health. May...Again, hard fast studies are tough , due to the fact a scientific study on the average tinc fed 'x' and one fed 'y' over twenty some years has yet to happen.
I'm not sure, but I'd say that comfort and food intake contribute to the vast majority of weight gain.
If you are concerned you can either separate the pair or stop misting totally and cut back on food stuffs.
Do you have pics of the pair?
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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I seperated them after the clutch of eggs showed up. I will post pic as soon as I get a chance to down load them. The tanks have minimal ventalation so cutting back on misting is not a problem. I feed them every other day is that still too much. I have read about the over feeding issues with poison dart frogs but I have not actually seen what the best feeding regimen is for these frogs. Way too many experts and answers!
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Poison Beauties Wrote:I seperated them after the clutch of eggs showed up. I will post pic as soon as I get a chance to down load them. The tanks have minimal ventalation so cutting back on misting is not a problem. I feed them every other day is that still too much. I have read about the over feeding issues with poison dart frogs but I have not actually seen what the best feeding regimen is for these frogs. Way too many experts and answers!
I think it really depends on the tank layout. With nice sized of 55 gallons you probably have enough micro fauna to only need to feed about once a week. I have tanks I know I could walk away from for a month...
Yup, tons of speculation. Those guys may live longer and produce more than any tinc you or I own.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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I do have a well established setup for most of my breeders. With the Micro Fauna I would feel safe feeding once or twice a week but you you recommend that for all of my pairs, tincs, thumbs, and the few pums I have? What about the froglets, Am I over feeding them as well. Most of the reads say everyday until they hit six months oow. I am more worried about the Retics, Fants and My one red Lamasi as far as the feeding questions go. I have had crashes with my feeders happen and I have seen the tincs go a week off of what crawling around in their tanks but its a little harder to see with the smaller thumbs.
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Poison Beauties Wrote:I do have a well established setup for most of my breeders. With the Micro Fauna I would feel safe feeding once or twice a week but you you recommend that for all of my pairs, tincs, thumbs, and the few pums I have? What about the froglets, Am I over feeding them as well. Most of the reads say everyday until they hit six months oow. I am more worried about the Retics, Fants and My one red Lamasi as far as the feeding questions go. I have had crashes with my feeders happen and I have seen the tincs go a week off of what crawling around in their tanks but its a little harder to see with the smaller thumbs.
There are different situations with all my adults. But, I usually feed no more than twice a week, tops. Once is generally fine. It very much depends on the season, the viv, the species, ect.
I do not feed anything I have every day. Froglets possibly every other day, tops. Again though, it depends. Some of my froglets go right into vivs with tons of springtails, some into tubs where I can actually see how many springs are there and how many flies are left. With froglets it's best to have just enough good food for them to eat when they want, but a bit of hunting should be necessary and no bugs crawling on them.
An established viv should have enough micro fauna to support any culture crash. And remember, darts, being amphibians, do not lose or gain weight like warm blooded creatures. So going without any food for days (easily a week or more) on end for an adult dart is nothing to worry about at all. You'd not even notice the difference is size with a healthy dart.
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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Well, You just saved me alot of money as far as feeding goes. I make sure every tank my froglets morph into is seeded but my learning of this subject however is dated to when the supplements were the reason for more frequent feedings and I ussually don't fix unbroken problems but feeder issues have arrisen lately so the info helps.
Thanks,
Michael
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No problem. I know you like some of the smaller species too, :wink: and they can be feeding problematic at times.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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