Legacy Frog.

[Sherman]

A friend of mine put two words together the other day that blew my mind.
Legacy Frog.
It is basically the last frog that you will have until the day you can no longer keep any frogs. A particular type of frog that you put extra attention into to produce the best offspring possible and keep the line going as strong as possible for the benefit of future generations.
It dawned on my that my personal legacy frog is the lowly French Guiana (dwarf) Cobalt D. tinctorius. This was once one of the only frogs available to hobbyists and one of the first poison frogs I have ever seen in living color. Sadly this frog has fallen out of vogue and has become much harder to find. This is one frog has been around long enough to start showing signs of mismanagement from careless breeding and lack of record keeping. I have had very little success with this frog. I fear that my current stock is either too inbred or has been out crossed in the past. (Without records, unfortunately I do not know which has happened.) What has been described to me as a highly fecund frog produces infrequent eggs that fail to thrive in all stages of life (eggs, tads, froglets).
I will continue to work with these animals and attempt to someday offer unrelated pairs with as much information as I can gather so others looking to keep these little beauties in the future can.



What is your legacy frog?

[BcsTx]

Sherman, I have Dickens line of the French Giana dwarf cobalt, they breed like crazy, I have 2 sub adults in the parents viv now that I need to pull. If you are interested please let me know. They are gorgeous frogs not sure why they are underappreciated.

[Philsuma]

Even though auratus and then leucomelas came first, my first love would have to be iconic bastimentos pumilio. High orange, spotted and white belly. I'll always want them in a collection.

[Eric Walker]

Not a dart frog but iv been working with my own line of theloderma asperum since 09. I started with a group of 3.4 from two seperate imports and held back ten f1 from multiple clutches. I havent yet crossed my line with any other since i started with a very diverse genetic stock initially but will surly need to in the future.

[joneill809]

I'm partial to Lorenzo. They are slowly taking over my collection They suffer with limited stock and fertility issues similar to what you have noted. I've been trying to get "less related" pairs or groups going, but most animals are cousins at best. EU is in a better position with more lines...
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[Dendrokurt]

I would have to say the robertus are my legacy frog after being the first person to get them to breed in captivity, here's the first f1 robertus to hit land


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[Stu&Shaz]

Chris,it is a mind blowing concept,you have much to answer for my friend. Part of my mindset has come from you,your post about the pums of pamana here opened my eyes on a huge leevl to what is happening and the comintment we should try to make,not only with these frogs but pretty much all of them ,we keep in our glass boxes

I think at this time,4 years in,I'd feel uncomfortable stating I have legacy frogs,that I will have done right by,it seems almost bordering aggrogance for me personally,not anyone else,it's not meant that way. It's just " I gotta do something first huh :lol: ",and earn something with my and Shaz's care long long term.

But yes I have aspirations and am trying to make commitments to some frogs,in my own little way. Ha and yes I will somehow need a bigger set up to live up to those goals. Chris I want to keep at least two groups of some of these frogs,some of our frogs are very common here,although there are no records,I think I could add little long tern to going this way with our leucs,they are worthy of the best same as everyone else,but hell they are safe enough. That spotty frog might haunt me one day,but that method to breed is out there and maybe I helped a few folks here get 'em going,it's one of serveral frogs we keep,that I simply feel are safe at the moment. The Standard lamasi is surprisingly well represented here,we keep not as a legacy frog,but primarily because of the wild status,put me together with some friends here and between us a legacy may be built.

Sorry I'm straying bro,but it's an interesting topic not mused enough, I guess my couple of pums fit the bill though, We have two unrelated groups of bastimentos breeding,ha I'm actually quite thrilled to say I have my first almost adult cemetry basti trio for sale from two unrelated groups. I guess this is a big deal because this simple first step,I see as a way of starting a guy with unrelated stock...not x from the same pair ,whom might then go on to breed as siblings. It is that first tentative step forwards to reaching for a legacy frog Chris,my best shot at it too.

The second our red frog beach, Very few females here mate,not as many as fingers on one bloody hand I reckon!! But out cross males are available. I'm in nowhere land with this to keep these here long term is going to take some thought !! We are sitting on a lot twenty sommit I guess (adult sized individuals,man they just fall from the broms,folks can't expect me to count them too :roll: I have one breeding female,known to me(something weird is going on in that viv and I think I know what,just need the proof!!) I have 3 different males unrelated males,3 kids from one male,very orange little spotting All the rest are related on the damm's side her and a different male's kids. It's all a work in progress i'm still trying to prove out females,without luck. But my god there are some pretty things in their number.

Then I guess the summersi quest must feature,long road to breed a frog 3 1/2 years I think of keeping. I believe I'm the first,matters not though apart from the out cross aspect.My real reason to mention it is why the hell aren't these here already,it will always be a mystery,despite my ,or rather our own personal struggle with them My start is two breeding pair of UE frogs kept as a group,plus a lone male. I have a group of friends whom will do right by these kids if We can do my part rearing wise,my hope is my old male will get a chance with a young lass oneday,but I'm not sure he was an adult when I got him,time is ticking. Chris in this case plausibly it won't be my legacy But hopefully my failings will give a kick start to this species being bred here and the legacy will belong to the breeders next in line to me,a slightly different mindset here to the pums,I guess stemming from the fact all the frogs come from the gene pool UE hold.


Here's a Q for ya Chris :does living on a small island with only a given number of potential keepers,mean one ponders such things a bit deeper? For a while We were probably the only breeders here of superblue auratus and possibly the atachis pan. specials as well,didn't really realise all this a couple of years back!!


Cheers for this Chris,sorry about the ramble,hope it isnt' too far from what you wanted to discuss,the topic fascinates me,ie the long term goal side does,calling it my legacy at this is stage sort of weird in a way, something to aspire to though kiddo :wink:

Tis a work in progress my ol mate

best

Stu

[Sherman]

Chris,it is a mind blowing concept,you have much to answer for my friend. Part of my mindset has come from you,your post about the pums of pamana here opened my eyes on a huge leevl to what is happening and the comintment we should try to make,not only with these frogs but pretty much all of them ,we keep in our glass boxes

I am happy to have this sort of influence, even if it is only on one person.

I guess my couple of pums fit the bill though, We have two unrelated groups of bastimentos breeding,ha I'm actually quite thrilled to say I have my first almost adult cemetry basti trio for sale from two unrelated groups. I guess this is a big deal because this simple first step,I see as a way of starting a guy with unrelated stock...not x from the same pair ,whom might then go on to breed as siblings. It is that first tentative step forwards to reaching for a legacy frog

This is it. Thinking beyond your own needs is what I am getting at.
What will our contributions amount to after we are dead and gone? Will it be a large amount of frogs produced any way possible to pad our bank accounts, or will it be a smaller amount of quality frogs with a lineage that can be used to perpetuate the species?

Here's a Q for ya Chris :does living on a small island with only a given number of potential keepers,mean one ponders such things a bit deeper? For a while We were probably the only breeders here of superblue auratus and possibly the atachis pan. specials as well,didn't really realise all this a couple of years back!!

There are people that are looking to stop what we do. Borders may eventually be closed off and your island will become isolated. If this were ever to happen, yes, you all would need to think very carefully about how to manage your stock.

Cheers for this Chris,sorry about the ramble,hope it isnt' too far from what you wanted to discuss,the topic fascinates me,ie the long term goal side does,calling it my legacy at this is stage sort of weird in a way, something to aspire to though kiddo :wink:

Ramble on without worry Stu. Thanks for contributing (to the post and hobby).

Tis a work in progress my ol mate

Always is my friend. Always is.

Best,

[MELLOWROO421]

Wow! That's a tough question. It's nearly impossible for me to nail it down to 1 type of frog. It would probably be a toss up between my old line Blue Jeans, stadard green imitators or my quinquevitattus. The blue jeans were my grail frog when I got into this hobby. Rare, hard to find, expensive and for the most part you needed to have some type of "Frog cred" in order to get your hands on them. Things have obviously changed in the last 5-7 years.
The green imitators were my first thumbs. Super rad frogs and way under appreciated these days.
Quinquevitattus kinda speak for themselves. Not common in the hobby and even less common for those that do keep them to be successful with them. I feel a kind of responibility to continue working with them and get them out to those who are willing to make an effort to breed them too. Just sent a trio to NJ! Spreading the wealth! lol

[goods]

Mine is R. reticulata. This species has been in the hobby since the early days and has never become common. I always wondered why until I started working with them. Last season, I pulled 30+ eggs from a pair, which became 18 tads, which became four froglets. Two (and possibly a third) of those froglets look like they will make it to adulthood. The challenge of this species really makes them interesting and incredibly frustrating at times. I started with a UE pair, and this season I've picked up a pair from a line that dates back to when these came in as filler in Peruvian fish shipments.

Besides the challenge that comes with producing these, I have sentimental reasons for it as well that I'd prefer to keep to myself. This species should always take up a tank or two in my collection.

[joneill809]

Figured I'd bump this one as I've been looking around to get a feel for who is keeping the dwarf tinctorious morphs, and that reminded me of Chris and his dwarf cobalts. I still have my Lorenzo and Bakhuis, but I am seeing fewer and fewer of these dwarf tincs coming up for sale within the hobby. Kind of sad, as our legacy frogs are drifting away as most hobbyists turn to the shiny new imports. I went rolling through the tinctorious morphguide recently and wondered how many of those locales are simply lost now? Probably the same story for a lot of pumilio locales too...

Still Lorenzo for me....