Poll- Can Dart Frogs Drown in a Viv ?

[pafrogguy]

Am I right to assume they are sizeable vivs and set up correctly? Pretty sure I mentioned too small of vivs in that same sentence...

[frogfreak]

Am I right to assume they are sizeable vivs and set up correctly? Pretty sure I mentioned too small of vivs in that same sentence...

Yup, they're a descent size. My Pats are a little crowded right now though. I might moving some out in a bit. We'll see how things go.

[pafrogguy]

lol it happens. I was more referring to the folks keeping trios+ of adult frogs in ten gallons and then wonder what happened when they find one dead.

[frogfreak]

lol it happens. I was more referring to the folks keeping trios+ of adult frogs in ten gallons and then wonder what happened when they find one dead.

Yuk, I hate small tanks. Even the 24 x 24 Exo's seem small to me. I'll be switching to 4' long tanks as soon as I can.

[pafrogguy]

I just recently started the 40's. And with supes cagefronts, I like them better than exos. However I am currently building my own Protean style tank. If it turns out as good as I think it will, I will building all of my own tanks from now on. Thumbs I use roughly 20g equivalent, pums 30-40's, tincs range on size of tinc, pairs or groups, etc. Think we are getting a bit off topic though lol

[Philsuma]

Interesting poll data.

[Philsuma]

A paludarium is a complete fail for a Dart Frog habitat design.

Drowning

Unsuitable for microfauna due to over wet substrate - compaction, ect

Root rot for a ton of suitable plants, making plant selection very hard

Loss of dusted flies in water - fouling the water and frogs unable to achieve supplements

Fail

[Sherman]

I am testing this out for some new tanks.
The first tank I made with a new, lightweight material was built with a "pond" or "puddle" built into the back corner. The ground was hard scaped with carved great stuff to create an easy egress for any frog or froglet. I did this mainly to test out the full safety of this new material. The plan is to raise tadpoles in the puddle formed by the new material and look for any issues.
For the second tank I took it even farther. I did not use any great stuff because I feared it could interfere with the tadpoles. This time I siliconed some glass to create the 4" deep pool. One side had slightly tilted glass to allow exit. The other sides are straight up. I have placed pieces of filter foam in as ledges in some areas. I even cut a piece of filter material that makes a small "trap" not allowing frogs to come straight up.
Both tanks contain French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt D. tinctorius. None of them have drowned yet. From time to time I scare frogs into the second pond to see how they react. They dive down to the bottom, sometimes under the overhang and wait until I am presumably gone and find their way to the surface and climb out.
By no means am I saying that frogs cannot drown in a tank, but healthy frogs (FGDC tincs anyway) are unlikely to without some sort of real trap or tragedy.
The areas of tank that do not have the puddle, are much like a normal set up. The puddle is contained and otherwise does not affect the rest of the tank, plants, or microfauna.
This is not for aesthetics, I am doing this to hopefully create what I refer to as Lifecycle Enclosures. Tanks that support a dart frog's life cycle, from egg to egg. No cups, no lids, no growouts.
A feel positive about this type of design and think that if it is well implemented, it could work with a number of different frogs. I imagine tricolors would do very well.

[joneill809]

I have deposition ponds in all my tanks - similar to Chris, mine are exposed, sloped access to FB water. I flush my FB water monthly so it stays pretty clean and I tank raise many animals this way.

My red galacts are nut jobs and they would spook and dive into their ponds and stay submerged for a minute from time to time with no losses. They also tunneled into the bank of one of my initial designs and managed to create an underwater access point underneath their egg crate false bottom where they would roost at night. In James Bondian fashion they would dive into the pool, navigate to their gap, and climb into their dark false bottom cave. I had to rip that enclosure apart and redo it (I found five fat little frogs hiding in the FB during deconstruction), but amazingly there were no losses there either.

So in my experience my frogs have not drowned with regular access to pools. I am not advocating the use of more complex water features with pumps or palladuriums (different issues IMO), but I think deposition pools and allowing non obligates to tank rear is something that we should consider more as a hobby.

[Philsuma]

Small deposition ponds and pools. Small = good

Huge waterfalls, pounding 'streams' and gallons sized 'paludariums = unless you have experience = bad to fail

But, but but !!! How do I get experience if I never try, you may ask ?

Start small. Take a year or so to get your feet wet with the hobby and making a small, simple tank. The rest (elaborate) will come on it's own later when/if you decide to stick with things.

[Philsuma]

I have had a Suzuki racing bike for 25 years and never wrecked it but I know plenty of people who have laid er' down and even died. The percentage of risk is there, and it's not small. I do know what *is* small though - the chance of dart frog drowning if there is no deep water feature. You will not see those frogs living next to/on top of deep water like that, in situ. I wonder why?