Non Obligate Tadpole enclosure/cup components

[Philsuma]

Just a list of what all I include in every tadpole container (non obligate).

1.Use Spring or Tap water. Never use straight distilled or R.O Reverse Osmosis unless thoroughly mixed with Tetra blackwater or similar.

2. Tadpole 'tea'. I use a honking large restaurant squeeze bottle filled with the tea and mainly squirt it in for top-off water caused by evaporation.

3. A decent size piece of 'raw' Indian Almond leaf or a decent sized piece of the I.A that I used to make the above mentioned tea. I never throw the 'used' leaves away. The leaf does three (03) critical things. It continues to leach a little tannin into the water which along with the tea, serves to keep a lot of bacteria and possible infections at bay and then it also provides a HIDE for the tadpole. Ever see them scoot under the leaf when they see you approaching. It's got to be beneficial for the tadpoles to have something to hide under - helps remove stress. And finally, the leaf accumulates 'biofilm' or that slippery mulm of gunkiness. Tadpoles graze on the actual leaf, but I'm sure they enjoy the biofilm, heck they just may be going after the film first and then just keep going and chew the actual leaf.

4. A small river pebble. Same thing as the leaf - it accumulates biofilm and algae and the tads love it.

Now I don't normally put java moss or duckweed in there, but I'm not adverse to it and will probably do so in the future.

feel free to tack on your ideas and things you use here as well !

[frogs are cool]

Spring water, indian almond leaf, java moss, and live aquatic plants.

[Stu&Shaz]

Chris what's the live plant please?

We use a tea made from aldercone,known fungicide/bactericide and strong in tannins.as far as live plants go Elodea,I guess light levels are a factor as to whether it acts as an oxygenator, but it does get munched by tads.We also use duckweed that gets munched too. Oh and in our case oak leaves. Water for us is rainwater

Stu

[KGB]

why do u feel ro water is bad?? that is what is in our misting systems and its content probably is closer to rain water than spring water that comes out of the ground. ive used RO on 150+ tads without incident. Educate my ignorance :-)

[Philsuma]

If you are using straight RO water for eggs and tads, then you are getting extremely lucky - healthy 'looking' frogs. I wouldn't want to take a chance on what the 'pure' water is doing to the animals physiology / skeletal structure, for instance. If someone offered me animals raised in straight RO or Distilled water, I'd have to pass on them.

too much to type...here are the relevant threads:

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=338

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=6484

[frogs are cool]

Stu the live plants are Amazon Sword Plants, Echinodorus amazonicus if I'm not mistaken.
I use a tea made from Indian almond and oak that are high in tannins as well which is also a fungicide. I started using the plants as a way to naturally filter and oxygenate the water and have noticed the tads feeding on them as well. The addition of duckweed is also in the works to be added to the containers. It was collected in the wild and I'm giving it time before adding it to the jars to make sure they don't contain nymph eggs because the nymphs will feed on the tadpoles. I used rainwater for years but after reading a research paper on pesticides found in rain water i decided to switch to spring water.

[Stu&Shaz]

Thanks Chris,
for sure the rain water use is open to debate,but it's serving us really well,so far. I think you make a really good point also about the nymphs,that is an easy trap to fall into for anyone collecting duckweed from the wild. I'll look into the amazon sword plant,that's a new one for tad use to me,but looks to provide lots of cover for them.

Actually here's a related question,for those that rear oophaga in film cans.Do you use any similar components in said cans? Naturally, plants/ bits of oak/I.almond won't be eaten,duckweed might be counter productive,but still possible benefits to be had. I've not used anything previously,for the very few we have reared,but i'm interested in what others do

thanks

Stu

[Philsuma]

thanks for bringing up the obligates Stu...my component list is for out-of-viv raising of non obligates. I do not add anything nor do I vacuum the film cans for obligates . I pretty much leave the cans as is.

[Stu&Shaz]

thanks for bringing up the obligates Stu...my component list is for out-of-viv raising of non obligates. I do not add anything nor do I vacuum the film cans for obligates . I pretty much leave the cans as is.

Nah Phil,the thanks are mine,YOUR thread suddenly made me stop and ponder,we do all the above(sure variations on a theme) for non obligates,but we essentially leave a film can to be filled with our water of choice,and gain detritus collected in viv,just leaving aside the brom option for now. That in itself is worth musing on wouldn't you say,no answers here i'm a novice,but I do oft ask why . As always kiddo i'm probably slightly left field of where you intended this to be,move or delete as applicable,but you get the blame for the "Cor Blimey" moment :lol: the kudos is your's bro 8) I just come to the party to learn stuff and maybe help someone. You do have some fine and serious obligate breeders here though,I would still welcome what they do to aid in my learning curve.

I might have missed something.I do know one of our finest breeders adds a tea to all water he uses maybe others add bits of leaf to their film cans use a slightly different water composition,I've just not seen it mentioned anywhere that I can remember

best

Stu

[Philsuma]

some leaf pieces added to film cans or even broms couldn't hurt. The jungle is so chock-a-block full of dead leaves and leaf litter. Most people have no idea. There are literally layers upon layers of all manner of leaves ect decomposing in the jungle. I heard someone say 'the jungle is in a constant state of decay. If something does not move or grow quick enough, it starts to decay and decompose" .Tannins from leaf debris and detritus must be found in almost every single water bearing niche and cavity.

[frogs are cool]

.Tannis from leaf debris and detritus must be found in almost every single water bearing niche and cavity.

If i leave a glass of water outdoors it attracts life. I think the same would be true for the abundance of insects being found in and around water in the jungle. I have read in this thread about stones and leaves for bio film, java moss and duckweed, How about live insects? Anyone add them to the tadpole enclosure, like the way we add isopods and springs to the vivs. Insect protein must be high in their diet with the abundance that is attracted to the water.

[frogfreak]

How about live insects? Anyone add them to the tadpole enclosure

I had the same thoughts a while back, so I tried an experiment. I fed a half dozen Azureus tads nothing but flies for the entire tad stage. They morphed out a bit smaller, but other than that they were fine. My set up was RO with RO Rite, blackwater extract and a mag leaf.

I regularly see tads take flies off the surface in my tanks.

[Philsuma]

As Donn says...'the biofilm that occurs on the leaf and stone is the peanut butter on the cracker".

and who DOESN'T love peanut butter....unless you are allergic in which case you would go into anaphylactic shock...

[Philsuma]

I like to place a small to medium sized pebble of aquarium gravel / river stone into each tadpole cup. The biofilm that accumulates on stone may be slightly different than the film on a leaf. Smooth vs crunchy Jiff peanut butter ? The tads like the pebble for security, just like the leaf.

[guppygal]

Speaking of tads, etc - has anyone ever altered their diet (other than Frogfreak's fly diet) to achieve a smaller than normal or larger than normal adult?

[Philsuma]

You want to manipulate the diet of the tadpole to produce a small frog or a big frog? If so, why?

[guppygal]

To see if a smaller/larger healthy frog can be produced. Would the same thing be accomplished by selective breeding?

For example - I have two Austrailian shepherds. One is a standard and the other is a mini. Both are purebred and registered, but the mini is a more expensive pooch due to his size. I believe that, in this case, they were created by selective breeding.

Back to frogs - in my opinion, having an alternative size to choose from would be far better than continued imports of the newest frog discovered, or depleting the wild population of frogs already in the hobby.

Does this bug you, Phil?

[Philsuma]

Doesn't 'bug' me so much, as have me a little bewildered.

Bear in mind, that even though Glenn has posted about his 'feeding tads only fruit flies' in a post above, this thread is about Non Obligate tadpole cups / containers and the possible components therein. We need to keep on track. Starting another thread is always a good idea too.

In fact, I'll just start the thread.

[Philsuma]

If you are using straight distilled water or Reverse Osmosis water on eggs or in tad containers, it's no wonder they are not morphing out. "Pure' sparkling water is not found in nature. Even rainwater which is close to 'pure' passes through the atmosphere collects bits and pieces of 'stuff' and then it hits rocks, trees , plants and leaves and dirt and arrives in the frog bower, egg depository or tadpole reservoir FAR from pure, pure, sparkling, clean, pure, pure, fresh water.

Add 'RO right' mixture to your pure, pure water. Found at most pet and fish stores.

[Sherman]

Here is a video of a tadpole system I built for a few people.

https://www.facebook.com/shermantanks.c ... =2&theater

As far as I know, they are working well. I know one person discontinued the use of the pump because it was viewed as non-essential.